So this is handicap manipulation right?

[Neilds]

I know I am obviously being ignored but

YOU CANNOT MATERIALLY CHANGE YOUR HANDICAP WITH ONE GENERAL PLAY CARD SUBMITTED IN THE MIDST OF A WELL ESTABLISHED HANDICAP!

I feel better now I have got that off my chest

 

[rulefan]

That’s not what he is saying though

I thought we were discussing post #14

See #39

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I thought we were discussing post #14

Yes where it says a GP was put in before a match

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I know I am obviously being ignored but

YOU CANNOT MATERIALLY CHANGE YOUR HANDICAP WITH ONE GENERAL PLAY CARD SUBMITTED IN THE MIDST OF A WELL ESTABLISHED HANDICAP!

I feel better now I have got that off my chest

That very much depends on the Score differential that’s coming off and which one is replacing it in the top 8 scores

Can easily change your HI index to gain a shot or also lose a shot

 

[nickjdavis]

I thought we were discussing post #14

See #39

Youve misinterpreted post 14.....maybe if it had been written as...

If someone hadn't put in any General Play cards from their home course for a couple of years but lots of competition ones and then, when a great score was to drop off their record, put in a GP card, just before a match...

...then it might have been clearer.

 

[rulefan]

Yes where it says a GP was put in before a match

I now see the subtlety.
But the EG app was not a function of WHS, simply a facility provided by an outside organisation.

 

[Imurg]

I know I am obviously being ignored but

YOU CANNOT MATERIALLY CHANGE YOUR HANDICAP WITH ONE GENERAL PLAY CARD SUBMITTED IN THE MIDST OF A WELL ESTABLISHED HANDICAP!

I feel better now I have got that off my chest

Whilst that's mostly true, my PP CVG, went from 16.0 to 17.2 a couple of years back after a single GP card.
That moved him from 18 shots to 20...
Not massive but significant.

 

[D-S]

It’s very hard to make judgments on something that didnt happen

It’s amazing how defensive at times some get

It is very simple

It’s easier since the introduction of WHS to enter GP scores home and away because of the EG app that was brought in

It allowed the HC to be updating overnight and daily which we all know didn’t happen at most clubs when people entered supplementary cards in the past and also we couldn’t enter cards from away courses

It’s very much be stated by many that its one of the main positives of WHS

It is bizarrely thought by some that the previous system was ‘better’ in this regard and the additional burden on committees/Pro Shops to manually enter card was somehow a good thing.

The increased use of technology should be seen as a good thing not some odd conspiracy to make more people cheat than previously. It also is fairly obvious that Supplementary scores were being encouraged more and more in the last years of UHS and that if UHS had continued it would have evolved in this regard into something closer to today’s way of working. Apps, touchscreen entry, away scores, automatic overnight uploads for Supplementaries would have been here by now.

 

[D-S]

Whilst that's mostly true, my PP CVG, went from 16.0 to 17.2 a couple of years back after a single GP card.
That moved him from 18 shots to 20...
Not massive but significant.

Didn’t this just mean that his handicap was more up to date? Or was he deliberately entering a false score?

 

[rulie]

Didn’t this just mean that his handicap was more up to date? Or was he deliberately entering a false score?

Might also depend on how many scores he had in his handicap record? If less than 20, a single score could have more impact.

 

[YandaB]

How can a player return a qualifying card for a match?

The match was the next day.

 

[YandaB]

Only if they intentionally played badly to ensure a worse score.

No evidence, or thought that this was the case. The round dropping off was such a good one it was extremely unlikely to be replaced by the same or better. Had this person been putting in home GP cards throughout the past couple of years, there would be no issue. It's the change of behaviour and timing that feels wrong.

 

[Imurg]

Didn’t this just mean that his handicap was more up to date? Or was he deliberately entering a false score?

We enter scores 9/10 times we play (2, 3 or 4 times a week) so our handicaps are about as accurate as you can get.
It was just pointing out that a 2 shot swing isn't out of the question and as I said, although not huge, fairly significant.

 

[Swango1980]

No evidence, or thought that this was the case. The round dropping off was such a good one it was extremely unlikely to be replaced by the same or better. Had this person been putting in home GP cards throughout the past couple of years, there would be no issue. It's the change of behaviour and timing that feels wrong.

People are allowed to change their behaviour. And even if they only submitted a score because they knew their handicap would likely go up for the matchplay, still not cheating. It is simply how the system works. No different to them playing a medal the day before.

So long as they tried to score well in the GP round, no problem

 

[Imurg]

So long as they tried to score well in the GP round, no prproblem

And this is the crux.....if you tried to score your best score it doesn't matter...your index will go up, down or stay the same.
Put cards in a d your index will be accurate...

 

[jim8flog]

How many GP cards could a Cat 1 put in ?

When was the supplementary card put onto your HC record ? Overnight ?

What if the pro shop is shut ?

1. Clearly you know that but in my experience on the HCap committee Cat 1s often manipulated their handicap by not returning cards that would make them go out, at least the WHS has stopped this by applying a penalty score.

2. The next day, however under the UHS if the score meant a downwards movement the player was required to self adjust their handicap.

3. The opening hours of our pro shop and course meant that a SS card could not be put in i.e. the proshop opened before the first tee time and closed so late that a card should not have been put in due to insufficient time to complete a round.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

1. Clearly you know that but in my experience on the HCap committee Cat 1s often manipulated their handicap by not returning cards that would make them go out, at least the WHS has stopped this by applying a penalty score.

2. The next day, however under the UHS if the score meant a downwards movement the player was required to self adjust their handicap.

3. The opening hours of our pro shop and course meant that a SS card could not be put in i.e. the proshop opened before the first tee time and closed so late that a card should not have been put in due to insufficient time to complete a round.

So it’s now easier to put in GP scores using the app and your HI is changed over night without having to wait for someone to enter the scorecard into the system

 

[D-S]

So it’s now easier to put in GP scores using the app and your HI is changed over night without having to wait for someone to enter the scorecard into the system

Yes, this is a good thing isn’t it?

 

[twrmgoat]

People are allowed to change their behaviour. And even if they only submitted a score because they knew their handicap would likely go up for the matchplay, still not cheating. It is simply how the system works. No different to them playing a medal the day before.

So long as they tried to score well in the GP round, no problem

What if they had never submitted a GP score, and then submitted a 9 hole score the day before, to force their best score off and get another shot in the match to come.
It’s clearly manipulation. But not enough for committee to rule it out?

 

[Swango1980]

What if they had never submitted a GP score, and then submitted a 9 hole score the day before, to force their best score off and get another shot in the match to come.
It’s clearly manipulation. But not enough for committee to rule it out?

If they tried their best, it's fine. It is still a legitimate score