Smoothing sand before your shot

[CMAC]

I fell foul of this rule change a few weeks ago.

In a puddle in a waterlogged bunker where the unflooded areas were covered with footprints, and with only a vague awareness of the rule changes, I raked the bunker and took relief on the spot I'd tidied.

Subsequently, it just didn't seem right so I read the rules properly, called in and got myself DQd.

good for you!

Best solution is play the old rule ie dont touch ANYTHING until after you're out the bunker

 

[North Mimms]

Had a spirited discussion of this rule ysterday after golf.
The most experienced golfer present insisted that the new rule meant you could rake whatever and where ever you wanted as long as it wasn't improving the lie of the shot you are about to take, even if this meant tidying up the possible landing zone of a ball that didn't get out of bunker.
Having read this thread, i insisted that such thorough raking might not be Permissible. We didn't come to any agreement!

 

[duncan mackie]

Had a spirited discussion of this rule ysterday after golf.
The most experienced golfer present insisted that the new rule meant you could rake whatever and where ever you wanted as long as it wasn't improving the lie of the shot you are about to take, even if this meant tidying up the possible landing zone of a ball that didn't get out of bunker.
Having read this thread, i insisted that such thorough raking might not be Permissible. We didn't come to any agreement!

the problem with threads like this is that there are answered posts that aren't actually asking the same question as you have encountered here.

one posted suggested it would be good to tidy up an area of the bunker in case he didn't get it out and the ball ended up there - he was advised that this wouldn't be permitted.

however, if he had raked same area in the same way with the sole intention of caring for the course there would be no penalty. intention matters (here and in other areas in the rules).

put another way - probable landing area would be a no no because it recognises the possibility of the ball ending up there and you could no longer be soley caring for the course.
possible landing area is just that and carries no implication because everywhere is a possible landing area!

any area on your line of play, and for an appropriate distance either side which will be quite significant in a steep faced bunker, would be ruled out by 13-2.

so, as you have written it, I would agree with the 'experienced golfer' you reference.

 

[North Mimms]

the problem with threads like this is that there are answered posts that aren't actually asking the same question as you have encountered here.

one posted suggested it would be good to tidy up an area of the bunker in case he didn't get it out and the ball ended up there - he was advised that this wouldn't be permitted.

however, if he had raked same area in the same way with the sole intention of caring for the course there would be no penalty. intention matters (here and in other areas in the rules).

put another way - probable landing area would be a no no because it recognises the possibility of the ball ending up there and you could no longer be soley caring for the course.
possible landing area is just that and carries no implication because everywhere is a possible landing area!

any area on your line of play, and for an appropriate distance either side which will be quite significant in a steep faced bunker, would be ruled out by 13-2.

so, as you have written it, I would agree with the 'experienced golfer' you reference.

I'm a bit confused now!
So are you saying you can rake *anywhere* as long as you state that you are "caring for the course" ?
Even though I, as your marker, might think "is he doing that in case his ball ends up in those old footprints?"

 

[bobmac]

Don't touch anything in the bunker until AFTER you've played your shot. That way there can be no problems.
I know you can do, but why do something that will often cause an arguement?

 

[duncan mackie]

I'm a bit confused now!
So are you saying you can rake *anywhere* as long as you state that you are "caring for the course" ?
Even though I, as your marker, might think "is he doing that in case his ball ends up in those old footprints?"

not 'anywhere' - 13-2 takes care of a lot you can't touch.

if you as a marker have an issue with a player's actions then, as discussed before, make it the committee's issue not yours in practice in such situations you would normally be able to suggest that you don't think it would be appropriate to rake a particular area if the player was heading for it with rake in hand and the other player doesn't have any reason to be concerned - after all it's only about when a bunker is tidied up isn't it!

I understand Bob's view, and respect it. Personally I don't go out of my way to antagonise or stress fellow competitors, or opponents (honest) so I won't push their boundaries and, on the odd occasion I have a lot of time and a poor bunker I will ask them if they are happy about a particular area (for example) or just leave it until after playing.
generally we have sand traps rather than bunkers ie no real lips and certainly no 'collection points' - they do however suffer from deer as well as players who, at best, careless in raking.

 

[North Mimms]

Thanks Duncan,
to try to keep my post short, i did rather generalise. I know that even under the most generous reading of the rules, you shouldn't rake close to the ball where you would definitely be likely to be improvong your lie.

i like the way you approach it. Make clear what you intend to do, make sure it's ok with your playing partners.

I tend to take Bobs line. There's somethings which you know are ok to do, but I avoid doing them as others will object!

 

[JustOne]

I expect to get out of every bunker so therefore am I allowed to rake ALL OF IT?

If my ball happens to not come out that certainly wouldn't be something I'd played for.....

does that help?

 

[CMAC]

I tend to take Bobs line. There's somethings which you know are ok to do, but I avoid doing them as others will object!

its been said more than once already!!!!