Smoothing sand before your shot

[sawtooth]

Today I was tempted to take advantage of a new rule for 2012, however I wasnt confident that I wouldnt be breaking the rules so decided against it.

Ball in the sand in a crap lie, the bunkers clearly hadnt been raked this morning.

The rule amendment allows for smoothing the sand as long as its with the sole purpose of improving the course condition but not to infringe rule 13.2

I wanted to smooth the sand just behind my ball because the sand there was uneven. It would have helped my shot.

Whats your interpretation of this new ruling?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'd say that you'd be improving your lie by smoothing the sand as you described; so not permitted!

 

[rosecott]

I'd say that you'd be improving your lie by smoothing the sand as you described; so not permitted!

Heartily agree.

 

[Foxholer]

Heartily agree.

As do I.

That's not what the rule change was for - and it's worded so too.

Rule 13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 is amended to permit a player to smooth sand or soil in a hazard at any time, including before playing from that hazard, provided it is for the sole purpose of caring for the course and Rule 13-2 is not breached.

VIDEO: Rule 13-4 Explained

So if you can answer the question 'Where you seeking to gain an advantage from it' in the negative (and I'm certain you couldn't), then raking the bunker is OK.

Excuse the 'negatives' btw!

 

[sawtooth]

Thanks all.

Phew! Good job I decided against it as it would have been a clear breach.

At first I thought it was there to help you if someone had not raked the bunker but clearly you cannot use this rule to gain any kind of advantage.

 

[JustOne]

Hmmmm...... if you walk into a bunker and just pick up a rake as you do so I'm sure there's always a little bit of the bunker that could do with improving....... heaven forbid you get a little feel for the sand whilst you're in there.... everytime!

Interesting.....

 

[duncan mackie]

Hmmmm...... if you walk into a bunker and just pick up a rake as you do so I'm sure there's always a little bit of the bunker that could do with improving....... heaven forbid you get a little feel for the sand whilst you're in there.... everytime!

Interesting.....

you won't get much more feel for it than from walking in the bunker - let alone taking your stance for your shot (which will be right next to your ball.....

so not really very interesting at all

 

[Deadlydan]

Hi Duncan
can I pick a stone out if it lies in my path and likely to a. Scratch my precious vokey and b. Fly out onto putting surface?
Thanks!

 

[Leftie]

It's usually printed on the back of the scorecard under Local Rules if removal of stones is allowed.

If it's not a local rule, then no.

 

[duncan mackie]

Hi Duncan
can I pick a stone out if it lies in my path and likely to a. Scratch my precious vokey and b. Fly out onto putting surface?
Thanks!

of course you can - wouldn't want to scratch that shiny would you

if the LR declaring stones in bunkers as movable obstructions then it won't be a penalty

if there isn't a LR then it would be 2 shots under 13-4, but the good news is that you aren't required to replace the stone! Bargain!

 

[JustOne]

you won't get much more feel for it than from walking in the bunker - let alone taking your stance for your shot (which will be right next to your ball.....

so not really very interesting at all

Tend to agree however I wouldn't mind being able to rake a bit of bunker before I play a shot to see if the sand is soft and what's underneath/deep it is. If you scrape your shoe any more than 'digging in' then it would certainly look like you're testing the surface.

 

[Deadlydan]

Cheers leftie n dunc,
Some of the local bunkers won't be seeing my precious then!

 

[CMAC]

I didnt know about this new rule, however, the time I see it being used is if you go into a bunker and lets say an area a few feet away hasnt been raked and has footprints etc it would then be advisable to rake it in case your own shot rebounds and ends up there- as well as caring for the course.
I dont see me using it under any other circumstances in case its viewed as testing the surface

 

[BTatHome]

I didnt know about this new rule, however, the time I see it being used is if you go into a bunker and lets say an area a few feet away hasnt been raked and has footprints etc it would then be advisable to rake it in case your own shot rebounds and ends up there- as well as caring for the course.
I dont see me using it under any other circumstances in case its viewed as testing the surface

not sure that would be allowed.

 

[duncan mackie]

I didnt know about this new rule, however, the time I see it being used is if you go into a bunker and lets say an area a few feet away hasnt been raked and has footprints etc it would then be advisable to rake it in case your own shot rebounds and ends up there- as well as caring for the course.
I dont see me using it under any other circumstances in case its viewed as testing the surface

I suggest that you look at it in a little more detail before picking up a rake....

as BT... suggests it wouldn't be permitted and would be in breach of 13-4 (and 1 - 2 if it wasn't a breach of 13-4...)

Why do you think it would be OK?

 

[CMAC]

I'll check out the rule, as I say its a new one to me and doesnt make a lot of sense, might just stick with what I know and dont touch anything until I've played it

 

[bobmac]

I'll check out the rule, as I say its a new one to me and doesnt make a lot of sense, might just stick with what I know and dont touch anything until I've played it

I agree. I just wouldn't feel right touching anything in a bunker before I've played the shot, even if it is allowed-ish

 

[MashieNiblick]

I think the issue here is about the way the Rule is worded and what the intent is.

The relevant exception to Rule 13-4 states that

"2. At any time, the player may smooth sand or soil in a hazard provided this is for the sole purpose of caring for the course and nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the next stroke."

Previously you couldn't rake the bunker until after you had played from it. You had to play from the bunker as you found it. I believe I'm right in thinking that you could however rake the bunker after you had played even if you left your ball in the bunker subject to the same considerations as the current exception.

I think confusion may arise due to the fact that the exception refers to the affect on your next stroke, i.e the stroke you are about to play, rather than any subsequent stroke.

However the wording suggests that if you are raking with any thought of improving your lie for a subsequent shot then you shouldn't do it as you aren't raking for the sole purpose of caring for the course. You have an ulterior motive and your action may have an effect beyond simply caring for the course

I guess the idea of the new wording is to allow you to tidy up an area that might be nowhere near your ball, which with some of the big bunkers on some courses is very sensible, but like Bob says I'd feel very uncomfortable raking a bunker I was just about to play from even if it didn't improve my lie etc.

If I was playing with someone who did this in every bunker they went in I'd feel a bit concerned as eventually they wlll leave one in and gain some advantage. Not exactly in accordance with the principle of playing the course as you find it.

On the other hand if some idiot has made a mess of a bunker and you rake it before playing out and then by chance you benefit because your ball rebounds into that area is that any less fair than having to play out of a load of footmarks left behind because someone else was too lazy or too inconsiderate to leave the bunker in a decent state?

 

[duncan mackie]

resonable summary MN; I really would recommend people read rule 1-2 for an understanding of the principles behind a lot of the changes etc such as the revised exception to 13-4 raised here.

it's very short!


I think you make an ecellent point in that it would be a very mean spirited man who felt a player gained an 'advantage' when he had carefully renovated a bunker well clear of his ball whilst waiting to play his shot, and subsequently, and surprisingly, ended up back in that area.

Completely different from a player who sees he may not get out of a steep faced bunker carefully raking an area that any ball catching the lip might well end up in - and only that bit!

Personally I now do it all the time, but generally restrict myself to -
1. the area I picked the rake up from in the bunker - especially if I am epecting to put it back somewhere else
2. areas away from, and preferrably well behind my ball

the rest I do when I have played

same habit as filling in all the divots on par 3 tees with the material provided and repairing all the pitch marks!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I fell foul of this rule change a few weeks ago.

In a puddle in a waterlogged bunker where the unflooded areas were covered with footprints, and with only a vague awareness of the rule changes, I raked the bunker and took relief on the spot I'd tidied.

Subsequently, it just didn't seem right so I read the rules properly, called in and got myself DQd.