Sir Michael Fallon

[Deleted member 16999]

How about you doing it then. My Yogurt comment was a reaction to your previous insulting comment and intended to show how silly it is to revert to that type of debate. Can you not accept that some people have different views to you and just like you believe them to be relevant. If you disagree with them then debate the subject matter rather than suggesting a different view means the holder is somehow from another century.

You constantly dismiss opposing views, my comment, again if you care to look back, was after you started on about people being holier than thou and keyboard warriors, how does that fit in to your rhetoric

 

[Old Skier]

36 years in the Army, over 15 years as an Equality and Diversity Advisor and Army Welfare Officer.

I did chuckle when Fallon suggested he wasn't meeting the HIGH standards expected by the military

 

[Doon frae Troon]

36 years in the Army, over 15 years as an Equality and Diversity Advisor and Army Welfare Officer

I’ve seen and dealt with more bullying/sexual harrasment/homophobic behaviour than you can even imagine, 6 of those years were with Civil Servants in office environments.

Please don’t try and dismiss my experience as lala fantasy land.

:lol: Reply of the month there.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I did chuckle when Fallon suggested he wasn't meeting the HIGH standards expected by the military

Yep, same here

 

[SocketRocket]

You constantly dismiss opposing views, my comment, again if you care to look back, was after you started on about people being holier than thou and keyboard warriors, how does that fit in to your rhetoric

You are referring to my reply to LP who had joined you with insulting comments. I could turn your comment around about dismissing opposing views, you seem quite apt at that and not slow in throwing in slurs on people who have them. I understand quite clearly that you have taken a 'keyboard distance' dislike to me even though we have never met, this dislike affects your ability to debate with me in an educated manner. I appreciate you have valid viewpoints on such matters as this but please don't dismiss out of hand someone else by trying to make Smart Alec put downs. Read the thread again and see who started these antics.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You are referring to my reply to LP who had joined you with insulting comments. I could turn your comment around about dismissing opposing views, you seem quite apt at that and not slow in throwing in slurs on people who have them. I understand quite clearly that you have taken a 'keyboard distance' dislike to me even though we have never met, this dislike affects your ability to debate with me in an educated manner. I appreciate you have valid viewpoints on such matters as this but please don't dismiss out of hand someone else by trying to make Smart Alec put downs. Read the thread again and see who started these antics.

Here we go.

I took your advice and completely re-read the thread, your first post confused people and you were questioned on it, you failed to explain what you meant and had a small toing and froing with another poster.

This morning you posted about thin skinned balderdash and professionally offended and those assaulted waiting 10/20/30 yrs etc and finished it off by stating you couldn’t imagine any business not having a complaints procedure that could deal with this.

I answered your post followed by LP, as you answered his post first I took your comments as targeted to all those who disagreed with your post.

When you did answer my post it was on one point about me being naive, although if you’d of been following this story you couldn’t of missed the fact that it has come out that Parliament has no policy in place to deal with the allegations and the majority of political parties have either re-written or reviewed their policies as they were not suffice.

You then likened the allegations against Fallon as tittle tattle, despite one apparently being sexual assault.

Having never met you, I can assure you I have no like or dislike for you whatsoever, I will question any point of view I don’t understand and I don’t understand why Fallon would resign if there is no truth in any of the allegations. You have decided it is the problem with modern society and the media and have questioned everything else but him.

 

[SocketRocket]

Here we go.

I took your advice and completely re-read the thread, your first post confused people and you were questioned on it, you failed to explain what you meant and had a small toing and froing with another poster.

This morning you posted about thin skinned balderdash and professionally offended and those assaulted waiting 10/20/30 yrs etc and finished it off by stating you couldn’t imagine any business not having a complaints procedure that could deal with this.

I answered your post followed by LP, as you answered his post first I took your comments as targeted to all those who disagreed with your post.

When you did answer my post it was on one point about me being naive, although if you’d of been following this story you couldn’t of missed the fact that it has come out that Parliament has no policy in place to deal with the allegations and the majority of political parties have either re-written or reviewed their policies as they were not suffice.

You then likened the allegations against Fallon as tittle tattle, despite one apparently being sexual assault.

Having never met you, I can assure you I have no like or dislike for you whatsoever, I will question any point of view I don’t understand and I don’t understand why Fallon would resign if there is no truth in any of the allegations. You have decided it is the problem with modern society and the media and have questioned everything else but him.

You seemed to have blanked the bit where you started making jibes suggesting I belonged to various past times. Had I made any personal comments about you by then?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is there anyone on here who believes that Fallon resigned for putting his hand on a female journalist's knee ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You seemed to have blanked the bit where you started making jibes suggesting I belonged to various past times. Had I made any personal comments about you by then?

That’s were I said you answered LP’s post first and your comments were aimed at us both, so when I mentioned you belonging in the 70’s you answered with yogurt knitter thus reinforcing my belief.
If you had said those comments weren’t aimed at me instead of yogurt knitter I would of apologised.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is there anyone on here who believes that Fallon resigned for putting his hand on a female journalist's knee ?

Not me.

Richard Madeley made a good point early this week, stick with me. He pointed out that men know what is crossing the line, they know it. He was right. You don't touch women, other than your wife or girlfriend 😁, if you are a man, ever. You don't touch their knee, their arms, their shoulders or anywhere. We know that, we really do. Anyone claiming otherwise is a dinosaur.

I've been in offices etc for 25 + years and never felt the need to touch a woman in any way. I keep a bubble around any woman and don't enter that bubble. Not hard to do.

 

[dewsweeper]

I seem to have stumbled into a parallel universe!
What happened to innocent until proved guilty?
What happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions?
Like it or not Pandoras Box is open and can never be closed.
I do not have the inclination to argue a case but I really do not like trial by media and social media
We have moved so far away from genuine predators like HW and every one will have to think twice before any interaction in social intercourse.

 

[Hobbit]

Why did Fallon resign over a knee touch? You've got to be blinkered to think this wasn't a deflection for greater sins. An cynical attempt to retain some moral credibility and to almost appear as a (media) victim himself. People focussed on the knee touch and his subsequent resignation speech/interviews and then ate their next spoonful of celebrity news rather than read the second paragraph of a developing story.

Was he a good and capable Minister? Yes, but that should have absolutely no bearing on reviewing what he has allegedly done. Being a good Minister doesn't make him any better than a production line supervisor who is guilty of the same thing.

Do organisations have mechanisms in place to deal with sexual harassment? In pretty much every case, yes. Do they use them to them as they should? No. And the biggest failing I've seen, on several occasions is favouritism. Having an MD and two Directors say to me, in the post-hearing meeting they attended after sitting in on the hearing itself, "you make the decision."

Are women guilty of it? Of course they are. But let's not say that to diminish or in some way excuse men. Both offending sexes are guilty of the same thing, both of which should be stomped on hard.

 

[pokerjoke]

Why did Fallon resign over a knee touch? You've got to be blinkered to think this wasn't a deflection for greater sins. An cynical attempt to retain some moral credibility and to almost appear as a (media) victim himself. People focussed on the knee touch and his subsequent resignation speech/interviews and then ate their next spoonful of celebrity news rather than read the second paragraph of a developing story.

Was he a good and capable Minister? Yes, but that should have absolutely no bearing on reviewing what he has allegedly done. Being a good Minister doesn't make him any better than a production line supervisor who is guilty of the same thing.

Do organisations have mechanisms in place to deal with sexual harassment? In pretty much every case, yes. Do they use them to them as they should? No. And the biggest failing I've seen, on several occasions is favouritism. Having an MD and two Directors say to me, in the post-hearing meeting they attended after sitting in on the hearing itself, "you make the decision."

Are women guilty of it? Of course they are. But let's not say that to diminish or in some way excuse men. Both offending sexes are guilty of the same thing, both of which should be stomped on hard.

Well said your first paragraph IMO is spot on.

 

[SocketRocket]

That’s were I said you answered LP’s post first and your comments were aimed at us both, so when I mentioned you belonging in the 70’s you answered with yogurt knitter thus reinforcing my belief.
If you had said those comments weren’t aimed at me instead of yogurt knitter I would of apologised.

What ever. This is becoming laborious and not worth further comment.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

What ever. This is becoming laborious and not worth further comment.

You moan about debate, I answered your questions and even said I would of apologised.

Now it’s becoming laborious and not worth further comment.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Not me.

Richard Madeley made a good point early this week, stick with me. He pointed out that men know what is crossing the line, they know it. He was right. You don't touch women, other than your wife or girlfriend 😁, if you are a man, ever. You don't touch their knee, their arms, their shoulders or anywhere. We know that, we really do. Anyone claiming otherwise is a dinosaur.

I've been in offices etc for 25 + years and never felt the need to touch a woman in any way. I keep a bubble around any woman and don't enter that bubble. Not hard to do.

What about your wife and your girlfriend.

Jo Brand had a well delivered good swipe at the 'Jolly Boys' on last nights HIGNFY.
They looked suitably embarrassed.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What about your wife and your girlfriend.

Jo Brand had a well delivered good swipe at the 'Jolly Boys' on last nights HIGNFY.
They looked suitably embarrassed.

Thankfully my girlfriend became my wife so that's okay 😁.

I thought she spoke very well. To be fair it was pretty much targeted at Quentin Letts who did himself no favours and gave a good impression of someone with an attitude that is part of the problem. I thought the others, although all older men, were not culpable.

 

[Sweep]

If he wishes to complain and his case is found correct, I’d be more than happy to apologise.

In my defence I would raise his previous posts and let the mods decide.

Good grief

 

[Sweep]

Making unwanted comments of a sexual nature can easily be classed as Sexual Abuse - you don’t have to put hands on someone to sexually abuse them , can easily be in the form of words.

Being offensive to someone can actually be a crime and one that can have severe consequences depends on the results of the offensive behaviour.

So far both yourself and SR seem to be pointing fingers of blame at both the establishment and victims as opposed to the person who is being accused of said acts towards females.

The more that comes to Light and the more people are told that these unwanted actions no matter how “trivial” they may seem are no longer tolerated then hopefully that will allow more victims to come forward and ensure people don’t carry away with any sort of sexual abuse.

The Victorian attitudes displayed by people like SR are hopefully dissolving away and it’s because people are now being brave enough to come forward

So verbal "abuse" is of the same magnitude as physical abuse?
As I asked, is speeding at 32 in a 30 limit the same as speeding at 120mph in a 30 limit?
If something is against the law then that is the only consideration? Murder is the same as shoplifting?
We have probably all been guilty of posting something on here that might offend someone, especially the professionally offended who are often offended on others behalf. Should we all lose our jobs?
I think you misunderstand. Both myself and I guess SR are not blaming the victims. We are simply suggesting that there are serious cases of sexual abuse and clearly less serious claims that whilst in bad taste and ill advised do not amount to criminal behaviour or anything like it. It's a very easy, very lazy and an absolutely incorrect argument to associate those who question both sides of the story with supporting unacceptable behaviour. If someone made an unsubstantiated and false claim against you, I don't think you would want the complainer believed as a matter of course.
The only time I am suggesting that the establishment is at fault is when they fail to listen to a complaint. If you want people to come forward if they are abused, I don't really know why you would disagree with that.
No-one has suggested any of this is trivial. I am suggesting that there are far more serious cases and that we must not let this distract us from dealing with real abuse.
This is not an argument for Victorian, 1970's or 1870's attitudes. It's asking for a common sense approach.

 

[Sweep]

Is there anyone on here who believes that Fallon resigned for putting his hand on a female journalist's knee ?

Do keep up. The story has moved on