Should you be able to find your ball in proper rough?

[ScienceBoy]

My course and the course I played Thursday evening are night and day when it comes to rough.

My course's "mown" areas of rough are full of weeds, long grass, holes, tiny mounds and other features of uneven ground. Finding a ball is almost impossible if you stray out of the first cut.

At John O'Gaunt I found the rough to be consistent, thick and punishing BUT I could always find my ball!

It was fun to play on a course in near perfect condition too, as my course has about 60% less fairway grass per m2 at a guess. Playing golf off a proper surgface can make all the difference to the enjoyment!

 

[Imurg]

I'll agree

My place is like a jungle once you're off the first cut.
To be fair, it's one of the defences the course has but it's rapidly coming to the point at which you just don't bother going to look because even if you find it you won't be able to play it.

 

[Whee]

Our fairways are looking pretty lush at the minute - i've been wondering what it must be like to play a shot from them!

The rough at our place is ok, you'll always find your ball in it, even though your shot might not be easy. A lot of the time, the ball can end up being propped up, virtually teed up by the stuff.

For a handicap golfer, I can't see where the enjoyment would be, in not being able to find the ball in rough.

 

[Ian_S]

You should always be able to find your ball in the rough and for me it's lazy course planning to treat the rough as a hazard to the extent that its three off the tee if you go in there.

That said, the rough should offer some punishment. On grown up, tree-lined courses, that punishment is a good chance you won't be able to move up the course unless you can pull off a Bubba. On the newer parkland courses, where the trees are young, all the rough takes from you is a bit of rollout - not much punishment at all really. There's not a lot the committee can do about the age of the course so I do sympathise, but if you're going to use the rough to seriously punish then you need to widen the fairway else it just becomes a farce.

 

[Hobbit]

If you're way off line in the boondocks then I don't think losing a ball is unreasonable. If you're only a few yds off line I think you should be able to find your ball but then struggle to hit the green.

Getting the rough right is very important to pace of play too. If you've got 14 holes bounded by thick, deep rough and add in 100+ amatuer golfers you're going to get plenty of moaning...

 

[mcbroon]

If you're way off line in the boondocks then I don't think losing a ball is unreasonable. If you're only a few yds off line I think you should be able to find your ball but then struggle to hit the green.

Getting the rough right is very important to pace of play too. If you've got 14 holes bounded by thick, deep rough and add in 100+ amatuer golfers you're going to get plenty of moaning...

Absolutely correct.

 

[Crow]

If you're way off line in the boondocks then I don't think losing a ball is unreasonable. If you're only a few yds off line I think you should be able to find your ball but then struggle to hit the green.

Getting the rough right is very important to pace of play too. If you've got 14 holes bounded by thick, deep rough and add in 100+ amatuer golfers you're going to get plenty of moaning...

That's pretty much how I see it. Our place is fairly young in tree terms and there is a lot of rough between fairways but most of the time it's kept at a sensible height and you can see your ball if you're within 10 or 20 feet of it and it will affect your shot selection. more remote aeras you will struggle to find it.

To illistrate the point about slowing play down, a few weeks ago the rough had got maybe a couple of inches longer then normal and finding your ball in any rough became difficult, rounds for all became painfully slow as people hunted for balls that not far off the fairway.

 

[MadAdey]

Rough should punish not destroy in my opinion. When you have stupidly deep rough 10 yards off the fairway it just causes lots of lost balls and slows play right down. My place have got the rough about spot on to be honest. 1st cut makes the ball sit down a bit and is about 5 yards then a second cut that even though the ball does sit down in making your shot difficult to control, you can still find it.

 

[Andy808]

This year our first cut, rough and deep rough are in fantastic shape.
In the first cut you will find your ball, every time, with a good chance of a shot to the green.
The rough closer to the trees is a little thicker and you'll find your ball 9 times out of 10 but your probably going to have a bigger problem with over hanging trees to hit at the green.
The deep stuff around the trees is very deep, uncut this year, giving you a 50/50 chance of finding the ball and only the stronger players will have a chance at getting out of it.

 

[Fish]

We've got a couple of yards of first cut and then an average of 5 yards minimum in some areas of rough cut set at about 75mm so you can just see the top of the ball, if your not in a hollow, if your wider than that, then tough, its wild in their just like the shot that put you their and you just take your punishment and if that means a lost ball, then so be it.

We've reduced some of the rough between our tree's though as the tree's can be punishing enough. Drive the ball into the tree's like a pinball machine and you don't know where to look anyway!

 

[SGC001]

One of the better places I've seen for thick rough was a place where they had patches of it alongside the 1st cut. The rough in the patches was fairly long, but as they alternated 20 yards of thick stuff with 10 yards of cut it made it a lot easier for people to find their ball even if they were in the thick stuff as it gave them a good chance to see where it went in. Obviously people could get lucky, but the threat was still there off the tee.

I think in this day and age most people seem to want play to keep moving so findable, but thick enough to make 8, 9 wedge been the sensible club choice works for me.

I don't mind a test of golf though, so don't see too much of an issue placing the thicker stuff more in range of the better player / longer hitter from the tee giving them a choice of what to hit off the tee and yet it been out of play for the more average player / length hitter.

 

[AmandaJR]

Our rough is lush and consistent and tough! Sadly we don't have a first cut though so an inch of the fairway and it feels a bit too penal. Having said that the fairways are narrow for a reason and that's to add difficulty to a course that doesn't have length as a weapon.

 

[MadAdey]

I don't mind a test of golf though, so don't see too much of an issue placing the thicker stuff more in range of the better player / longer hitter from the tee giving them a choice of what to hit off the tee and yet it been out of play for the more average player / length hitter.

That is hardly fair is it. Generally longer hitters are lower handicaps so not only are they giving away shots to the higher handicapper but also getting punished more severely for missing a fairway.

 

[SGC001]

That is hardly fair is it. Generally longer hitters are lower handicaps so not only are they giving away shots to the higher handicapper but also getting punished more severely for missing a fairway.

I don't think it's that unfair as they are more equipped to deal with longer rough or more hazards. It allows for strategy. I'd also be more inclined to look at different kind of choices for the higher handicap player to deal with.

Another course I've played stuck a couple of new bunkers in around the 300 mark on a couple of holes, hit 3/5 wood to lay up or take it on. I like the changes I'd much rather see that than a bunker at 240, that the better player flies and everyone else struggles with. You can narrow or shape the fairway or use a hazard further up the hole for the player using a 3 shot approach to give them a sensible layup or a risk reward if they try and get too close to the green.


Handicap wise it'll adjust to the course you play anyway, it's not that much different from someone saying he should have 2 shots less he uses a buggy. He uses a buggy and if he should be 2 shots less he will be, he got his handicap using a buggy.

You could always go back to your old clubs, if it's better for the shorter hitter

 

[MadAdey]

I don't think it's that unfair as they are more equipped to deal with longer rough or more hazards. It allows for strategy. I'd also be more inclined to look at different kind of choices for the higher handicap player to deal with.

Another course I've played stuck a couple of new bunkers in around the 300 mark on a couple of holes, hit 3/5 wood to lay up or take it on. I like the changes I'd much rather see that than a bunker at 240, that the better player flies and everyone else struggles with. You can narrow or shape the fairway or use a hazard further up the hole for the player using a 3 shot approach to give them a sensible layup or a risk reward if they try and get too close to the green.


Handicap wise it'll adjust to the course you play anyway, it's not that much different from someone saying he should have 2 shots less he uses a buggy. He uses a buggy and if he should be 2 shots less he will be, he got his handicap using a buggy.

You could always go back to your old clubs, if it's better for the shorter hitter

This is where my club is quite clever in what they are doing. On the 15th they have introduced 2 fairway bunkers that cut in from the right. One at about 230 and the other at about 280 so longer can clear the first one but get caught by the second one and shorter hitters still have a hazard due to the bunker at 230.

 

[SGC001]

This is where my club is quite clever in what they are doing. On the 15th they have introduced 2 fairway bunkers that cut in from the right. One at about 230 and the other at about 280 so longer can clear the first one but get caught by the second one and shorter hitters still have a hazard due to the bunker at 230.

I don't know your course so it's hard to comment on individual holes without knowing contours, prevailing wind and all that kind of stuff, but it certainly sounds workable and that it meets with your approval.

Depending on the how those bunkers affect the line of play, that's potentially quite penal (edit; especially if your course runs firm and fast) for those choosing to lay up in-between versus those flying them or laying up. What are they looking at something like a half shot penalty for those visiting the traps or do they take the green out completely.

 

[Billysboots]

When I joined my current club 7 years ago the second cut was long but quite thin - the result was that you could invariably find your ball, but your next shot was punished. That, in my opinion, is exactly as it should be.

After a number of wet springs/summers, the second cut is now ridiculous, and by far and away the worst I have seen anywhere. The course is inland links in style and sculptured on a well drained sand/gavel base, meaning when it warms up the fairways are really firm. Add to that the narrow first cut, and the fact that, being an exposed location means it is prone to being windy, and you can perhaps guess what the issue is - balls landing in the fairway, running through the first cut and into the second, never to be seen again.

The second cut surrounding all 18 holes is now knee deep and extremely thick. There is no let up from it anywhere on the course. Even if you know exactly where a stray ball has gone you are unlikely to find it, and the result is reload after reload, and tedious minutes spent hunting for balls. I remember once two of our 4-ball driving into the second cut on a par 5. We knew exactly where both were within about 5 yards. The four of us spent five minutes hunting, never found either ball, but walked out with thirteen other balls between us.

There have been any number of complaints about it, and even though new equipment has been purchased to tackle it nothing has changed. Entries for medals are down by about 30%, because so few want to play in events that take just over 4 hours in winter, and nearer 5 1/2 in late spring/summer.

I have always enjoyed summer golf, but some common sense needs to prevail. Depending on the ability of your group in a competition now, the game can either be a pleasure or torture.

 

[DAVEYBOY]

The PGA is getting to the point where a drive that misses the fairway by 1 yard is lost :rofl:

:swing:

 

[DAVEYBOY]

This chap got lost looking for his ball the other day :rofl:

 

[MadAdey]

Depending on the how those bunkers affect the line of play, that's potentially quite penal (edit; especially if your course runs firm and fast) for those choosing to lay up in-between versus those flying them or laying up. What are they looking at something like a half shot penalty for those visiting the traps or do they take the green out completely.

The hole is 380 yards SI 4. Normal wind is behind and off the right. You have got 30 yards between the left edge of the bunkers and the trees to the left of the fairway. If you do go in the bunkers as long as you are not in the front of either bunker then you can get it out and still maybe hit the green with a good one.

This to me is what you do to toughen up a course, bunkers and water hazards. Do not do it by leaving grass that long you can't find your ball and especially by doing it only at the distance better players hit to.