Should clubs be fairer about maintaining the rough?

[barrybridges]

I was just reading this (http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Pace-of-Play.aspx) which appeared in a link on another thread.

It brought back a conversation I was having whilst playing at a club near to me recently. Apparently a number of members had complained that the rough on the course was 'too rough' and that any time your ball went into it you had no chance of finding it because it was just too thick.

Obviously golf is affected by the economy as much as anything else, which is why the link above interested me; it suggests that rough shouldn't be 'too rough' so that players can at least find their ball.

Is it therefore a fair argument from club members that their rough shouldn't be so punitive if you end up in it? With balls costing up to £4 each it seems a bit harsh not to at least keep the rough stern enough to penalise those who enter it, but not crazy enough so that you have to write off finding your ball?

Or is that softening things up too much?

 

[AuburnWarrior]

I believe that the rough is only grown at my place before the club championship so that the course plays at its toughest. The greekeeping staff are starting to grow it now. As soon as the CC is over, the rough is cut back.

The rough at my place is stupid long and very, very thick - if your ball goes in, you'll not find it. If you're lucky enough to find it, only a wedge will get the ball out.

The members moan but I suppose the answer is to not go in it.

 

[GB72]

Had this problem when playing the PGA at the Belfry on the GM meet a couple of years ago. You really did not need to be far off line to lose your ball. Rough can be thick so as to penalise the bad shot without swalling the ball so as you cannot find it.

 

[Oddsocks]

AW, that could be a good thing, wild people off teh tee will get penalised badly, and your old steady eddy's at 200/220 yards down the middle will be in a better position.

I hate playing courses where you can be wild and not punished..

 

[barrybridges]

But there's a happy medium here, surely?

I should be able to hit a wayward shot into the rough and not lose my ball, but still end up with what would be the equivalent of a 1 shot penalty as a result (e.g. because I have to chip it out or otherwise have a bad lie).

It doesn't seem reasonable to swallow every ball into the rough.

This particular club I played at was crazy - even the greens were fully surrounded by thick thick gorse. And silly things like having the gorse directly in front of the tee boxes: why bother? If someone duffs their tee shot into the rough then they are surely already penalised because their tee shot dawdled 50 yards rather than also causing them to lose their ball?

 

[AuburnWarrior]

AW, that could be a good thing, wild people off teh tee will get penalised badly, and your old steady eddy's at 200/220 yards down the middle will be in a better position.

Plus, the steady eddy will get the additional run that the hard fairway affords.

My course needs penal rough, otherwise you can cut the corners on the long holes and not really be penalised for erratic drives.

 

[turbowoowoo]

Couldnt agree more! Rough should cost you, but should not destroy your card

 

[barrybridges]

It's more about destroying your wallet though...I'd say I end up in the rough maybe twice a round on average. That's £8 a round thrown away if I can't find my ball.

 

[USER1999]

How about chopping all the trees down too, and I'm not too keen on ponds as I could lose a ball in the water, so they had better be filled in, and then out of bounds, that's a bit inconvenient (and I can't get my ball back from there either), I'm not too good out of sand, so the bunkers had better go, and while we're at it, can the hole be made any bigger?

 

[barrybridges]

Now you're just being facetious!!

It's a sensible question; no-one is saying making the course any easier; all we're saying is that there's a difference between 'rough that will cost you some shots' and 'rough that will cost you some shots and also cause you to completely lose your ball'.

Or - as I said earlier - how rough does the rough need to be to really penalise players?

Perhaps we should grow the rough out of cacti and be done with it?

 

[timgolfy]

Sounds like your club is run by a committee of senior citizens who get upset at seeing people smash their drivers more than 230 yards, and so want to force them to play "proper" golf. After all, anyone who can hit a par 5 in two or attempts to drive a short par 4 is just spoiling the enjoyment for everyone else.

 

[User20205]

Sounds like your club is run by a committee of senior citizens who get upset at seeing people smash their drivers more than 230 yards, and so want to force them to play "proper" golf. After all, anyone who can hit a par 5 in two or attempts to drive a short par 4 is just spoiling the enjoyment for everyone else.

it's all about risk reward. you can try and drive a short par 4 or go for a par 5 in 2, but there should be a penalty attached for missing. Rough is just one of these.

If you want to smash balls on a field, stick to the range.....

There is a little more to golf than being HUUGE timmy

 

[USER1999]

If the fairways are a decent width, (obviously narrowing at 250 + to penalise the longer hitters, and make them use some strategy or learn a bit of accuracy), you have a first cut, a second cut, and then bundu. If you are in the bundu, tough, you need to start hitting some fairways.

You should never be able to lose a ball in the first cut. After that, it is up to the course how tough they want it to be (often decided by the Captain, and he is of the short and straight variety, he's going to penalise big hitters who aren't straight just for fun). To me, once you are out of the first and possibly second cut, the rough should be penal. About 12" deep should do it.

We don't have much rough at my course. There is not really any need. Most holes if you aren't on the fairway, you are in the woods (you can lose loads of balls in the woods too). Where there is rough between two adjacent holes, it is deep stuff.

 

[G1BB0]

should be able to find one of these in the rough

http://www.boysstuff.co.uk/product.asp?id=16128&ms=affwin_boys

 

[bladeplayer]

But there's a happy medium here, surely?

I should be able to hit a wayward shot into the rough and not lose my ball, but still end up with what would be the equivalent of a 1 shot penalty as a result (e.g. because I have to chip it out or otherwise have a bad lie).

It doesn't seem reasonable to swallow every ball into the rough.

This particular club I played at was crazy - even the greens were fully surrounded by thick thick gorse. And silly things like having the gorse directly in front of the tee boxes: why bother? If someone duffs their tee shot into the rough then they are surely already penalised because their tee shot dawdled 50 yards rather than also causing them to lose their ball?

100% right barry , rough should mean you lay up or chip out but this idiocy of loosing balls 2ft in the rough is madness, new club opened over here a few years back , place was packed most days but the conversation was how stupid the rough was .. slows play up no end aswell some one on every hole looking for a ball ..

 

[Oddsocks]

It's more about destroying your wallet though...I'd say I end up in the rough maybe twice a round on average. That's £8 a round thrown away if I can't find my ball.

Use cheaper balls man! of that handicap i wouldnt be using £4.00 prov1.

you can get some great balls for around £1.00 a ball if you shop around. i just purchased 3 doz dx3's for £30.00, thats £0.84p per ball or £1.68 for the 2 you may lose... alot cheaper than £8.00

I agree there is a happy medium. what about... just as an idea markers in the rough to give indications of where in the rough you have landed.

Ive been to a few courses (gatton manor rings true as the most recent) whre they will put marks on the tree's to try and give you indications of where your ball entered the rough etc.

 

[barrybridges]

I guess that was my point - I saw the link in a section advising clubs about slow play.

There's a course near to where I am which I've played a couple of times, where there is rough just for the sake of having rough.

The tee box example is a good one. On about 50% of holes there is a patch of thick gorse directly in front of the tee boxes, for about 25 - 40 metres. So, if for some reason you screw up your tee shot, your ball is lost.

I don't see what the benefit of this is. If you're a bad golfer, you're already penalised because your 2nd shot will still be miles from the green. You've already been penalised. By having gorse means that you're also going to lose your ball and no doubt waste time trying to find it. So, if you're a bad golfer you're going to get shot to get shred.

This particular course doesn't have the 'tiers of rough' that others have described. It goes from fairway >> light rough >> thick rough within about 2 metres - and the thick rough is REALLY thick. A mix of long grasses, gorse and bluebells (at this time of year).

I'm not complaining because *ahem* I don't end up in the rough as much as it might sound like it. What frustrates me is that when I do, the ball is lost. I understand that this club recently cut back whole swathes of gorse because the members were complaining about it - arguing that too many balls were being lost and that if your ball goes in, you've already been penalised at least a shot because it's difficult getting out anyway.

 

[USER1999]

Some courses are harder than others. I like a challenge. To me, standing on the tee looking at a 190 yard carry to the fairway over gorse and thick rough (or a pond) makes a change from my home course, where I can knob it off the tee with impugnity. It's not just high h/caps who hit shonky drives you know, every body does it. If I knob it 30 yards off the tee, and then hit a 4w 230, and wedge on, one putt for 4, have I been punished? Not really.

Variety is what it is all about, other wise why play other courses at all?

 

[Oddsocks]

baz i like the sound of your place, bad shots should be punished. i hacked on sunday with a triple bogey up the first, and a quad bogey down 8th in the card and still shot within buffer, playing at your gaff my card would have reflected the level of play, instead my hc stays the same because our course is far to forgiving.

atleast your hc will be a true hc.

 

[brendy]

Every course is different, I played Baltray 2 years ago and the rough was anywhere from knee to hip length, every ball put into it was found but had to be played out with a short iron such was the 'grabby' nature of it.
This is a pic of one guy in our fourball in one of the strips of rough, it looks thicker than it actually was, but was a real pain to get any distance out of, obviously.

My own club has trees as the main penalty for missing the fairway, the rough never gets longer than around 6-12 inches.