should she be allowed back in the UK?

[bobmac]

How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.

 

[drdel]

So on the one hand the 'defenders' would allow her return because at 15/16 she was no a "child" yet politicians want to give 16 years old the vote.

She was mature enough to fund and make the trip there, if she can get to the UK then the law should take its course.

 

[Sweep]

What exactly do you think that adds to the thread ? It’s just a snidey comment that doesn’t enhance the debate - it’s not an opinion is just a pathetic statement isn’t it - something you would expect from a child

So you are OK being rehabilitated as long as she goes nowhere near you?

 

[Sweep]

How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.

C’mon Bob. It’s a debate. It’s an emotive subject and people have strong opinions. I respect the opinions of others and as far as I can see both sides have debated strongly.
A civilised country enshrines free speech.
None of this will make any difference to the outcome and it has nothing to do with us being a civilised country. The caliphate however...

 

[Deleted member 1740]

How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.

It's the result from a Tory "divide and conquer" Government.

 

[Sweep]

I expect the other posters to embelish posts to try and demean what they post but i didnt expect you to carry it on - really poor when someone clearly hasnt said something then posters try and twist things



Im not sure you can call the country " in a time of war" - but there are already rules in place. I dont think you are in a position to "state" that allowing her to enter the country ( her right as a British National ) will not protect the country.


Of course its a poor thing to suggest - not one person has put the terrorist first and its disrespectful to suggest - what people are suggesting is she is a British National and as such can return but then allow our Justice System to deal with her.


The country over the decades has rehabed murderers , child killers and terrorists - people have been given the chance to change and make amends - its part of the fabric of our society. Why would we stop ? Do people not get a chance to redeam themselves ? a chance to put things right and in this case give her unborn child a chance in the world

I believe you did say “sit down with her social worker”.
As I am sure you know, I didn’t say we were at war. I used war to demonstrate that a governments first duty is to protect its people.
It’s not a poor thing to suggest. I notice you avoided the question on where you would rather spend the money.
I am all for second chances, though how she can “ put things right” is difficult to imagine. However, this is not a typical case. As you know we are asking if she should be allowed back. You made it about being dealt with by the law and rehabilitation. If she manages to get back then we have no choice but let the law deal with her. But in the first instance I don’t believe we should allow her the opportunity.

 

[SocketRocket]

It's the result from a Tory "divide and conquer" Government.

🙄

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So you are OK being rehabilitated as long as she goes nowhere near you?

I don’t believe I said anything about her going “nowhere near me” ?

I believe you did say “sit down with her social worker”.

I said if she was to return then she would sit down with security services and a social worker - that’s just a fact. Now certain posters twisted that to say I said she would sit down for tea and cake and a hug - really poor from those posters.

As I am sure you know, I didn’t say we were at war. I used war to demonstrate that a governments first duty is to protect its people.
It’s not a poor thing to suggest. I notice you avoided the question on where you would rather spend the money.

You were suggesting that people put the terrorist first - yes that is a poor thing to say
There are thousands of criminals I would rather they not spend my tax money on but they do - that’s our justice system , I’m not sure what the relevance is

I am all for second chances, though how she can “ put things right” is difficult to imagine. However, this is not a typical case. As you know we are asking if she should be allowed back. You made it about being dealt with by the law and rehabilitation. If she manages to get back then we have no choice but let the law deal with her. But in the first instance I don’t believe we should allow her the opportunity.

I don’t know how she can put things right , we don’t know exactly what she has done and can only speculate on that.

I don’t believe we should go out of our way to get her back to a British Embassy but I think someone will and then she will end up back here.

 

[SocketRocket]

What will happen to her is down to whether or not she presents herself to a British consulate and we all know what will happen after that. Whats being debated here is peoples opinions on how she should be dealt with.

What we post on a Golf Forum will make no difference at all to the outcome but it gives people a chance to express their preferences. It is amusing how some take the view that what we post will affect the lives and freedoms of others and change the law in some way. Its just opinions and challenging opinions, the type of debate you get in most spike bars throughout the world. Keep knitting the Yogurt 👍

 

[bobmac]

Keep knitting the Yogurt 👍

I'm out

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I don’t think capital punishment is ever the right thing to do because clearly, if we want to call ourselves civilised, it isn’t.

Rubbish. It doesn't have to be like it was, i.e. All convicted of murder should be executed OR none who are convicted of murder should be.
Capital punishment should be available to English law so that the most heinous and certain offenders can be removed never to offend again.
As for miscarriages of justice, the Judge has material of the case never seen in open court , certainly not by the jury, and he will know if there is a smidgeon or not of doubt. He then decides which sentence to impose.

But knowing that the worst that will happen to you for killing someone, is a nice comfy cell with amenities and ( unbelievably) better and quicker medical care than ordinary citizens, ( you don't wait three weeks in jail to see a doctor), is resulting in what we see now on city streets.
Killing after killing, going on and on.
All because of bleeding hearts worrying about the villains. And being
"civilised "

 

[Deleted member 16999]

What will happen to her is down to whether or not she presents herself to a British consulate and we all know what will happen after that. Whats being debated here is peoples opinions on how she should be dealt with.

What we post on a Golf Forum will make no difference at all to the outcome but it gives people a chance to express their preferences. It is amusing how some take the view that what we post will affect the lives and freedoms of others and change the law in some way. Its just opinions and challenging opinions, the type of debate you get in most spike bars throughout the world. Keep knitting the Yogurt 👍

Why ruin a decent post with those last 4 words?

None of us on here are any better than the next one (no matter what we as individuals may think) and all are entitled to our opinions.

I have absolutely no interest in this female returning to the UK and would happily see her rot in hell, I’m also, imo, the complete opposite of your political opinion.

Sad the rest of your post is ignored and why you get reactions like Bob’s.

I’m with Bob, I’m out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Rubbish. It doesn't have to be like it was, i.e. All convicted of murder should be executed OR none who are convicted of murder should be.
Capital punishment should be available to English law so that the most heinous and certain offenders can be removed never to offend again.
As for miscarriages of justice, the Judge has material of the case never seen in open court , certainly not by the jury, and he will know if there is a smidgeon or not of doubt. He then decides which sentence to impose.

People have been found guilty and have had the death penalty - they have then been found to be innocent , so innocent men have been wrongly killed by tbe authorities- it’s part of the reason why it was removed

But knowing that the worst that will happen to you for killing someone, is a nice comfy cell with amenities and ( unbelievably) better and quicker medical care than ordinary citizens, ( you don't wait three weeks in jail to see a doctor), is resulting in what we see now on city streets.
Killing after killing, going on and on.
All because of bleeding hearts worrying about the villains. And being
"civilised "

The death penalty is not a deterrent - countries still have the death penalty including plenty of US states - yet they still have murders and killings etc etc

It doesn’t work as a deterrent.

 

[Old Skier]

Can I ask why she needs to sit down with a social worker.

 

[pokerjoke]

It’s the kids I feel sorry for.

I mean why would anyone with a young family spends 2 days debating or arguing the toss about something they will never have a say in.

Have your say and move on.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm out

Maybe you can come back when you find your sense of humour.

 

[SocketRocket]

Why ruin a decent post with those last 4 words?

None of us on here are any better than the next one (no matter what we as individuals may think) and all are entitled to our opinions.

I have absolutely no interest in this female returning to the UK and would happily see her rot in hell, I’m also, imo, the complete opposite of your political opinion.

Sad the rest of your post is ignored and why you get reactions like Bob’s.

I’m with Bob, I’m out.

If Bob or anyone can't see the last comment was a light hearted remark then they should get a sense of humour top up.

 

[SocketRocket]

Can I ask why she needs to sit down with a social worker.

Apparently because she's pregnant.

 

[robinthehood]

It’s the kids I feel sorry for.

I mean why would anyone with a young family spends 2 days debating or arguing the toss about something they will never have a say in.

Have your say and move on.

Post count

 

[Tashyboy]

As much as it is a forum, and it will not change the law. It might well change people's opinions, if like me you sit on the fence at times and try to have an open mind. That said re changing the law. Someone has started one of those online petitions where you get 100,000 signatures and it is discussed in Parliment. The petition is along the lines of, if you leave the country to join ISIS, you are not allowed back in the UK. Will it change anything, I don't know, but it will be discussed. It may well be the law to allow her back, but it is an emotive subject, one in which some people think that she has made her bed and she should now lay in it.
Watch this space.