should she be allowed back in the UK?

[Fish]

There are many issues here.

Firstly we haven’t set a precedent as we’ve let loads back who we knew went to actually fight for ISIS and we haven’t even charged them when they slipped back in.

They haven’t been sought or outed like this girl but then this was always going to make more headlines and cause more outrage, especially being pregnant.

Her being 15 when she left holds no water for me, she left with her fathers blessing and took on a journey and route that some adults would find difficult to stay under the radar, but she achieved it, as a 15 year old.

She shows no remorse and has publicly stated she has no regrets!

For me she’s a potential sleeper, someone who will step up when called to arms, her child will be offered to be protected and brought up with their warped ideals, even over here, but she has the capacity to be a future recruiter and suicide vest carrier, imo.

I’d be surprised if she doesn’t hold any dual nationality, it’s normal for even siblings born in the uk to non British born parents to have like them, a dual nationality, if this was the case, it could make things much more easier.

I don’t buy into the ‘she’ll be known’ and monitored rhetoric, most crimes committed by these terrorists on our island have all ‘been known’ to us in some capacity, but it’s impossible to watch them all 24/7.

There has to be a mechanism that when a citizen leaves their country to fight for or support in any capacity a terrorist cell or organisation, then that constitutes an act of treason, I don’t believe the maximum sentence for treason has ever been changed, mainly because I can’t think when there was a charge for treason last implemented, so that could be interesting, but for me, at the very least she is now a potential threat to our security, has acted in a treasonous way and she should seek sanctuary in Syria, she is an undesirable, I don’t think even sentencing her to 10 years would achieve anything, if anything it could just make her even more hostile, and what of the child, her father is no shining light either!

Easy option which would get the tree-huggers twitching, would be a drone strike, which she just happens to get caught up in!

 

[Parsaregood]

Well first thing the death penalty as a deterrent doesn’t work - in fact it would turn people into martyrs and allow them figures they could look up to.

She has given one interview so far and still within the reaches of ISIS so it’s prob not the best idea to “denounce” considering where she is - sit her down with security authorities and social worker and then an assessment is made - show the UK isn’t the “ horror nation”that it’s portrayed by the radicals

They see the whole of western society as a horror nation. They want to live under Islamic law. The soft touch approach definitely doesn't work, look how many attacks have been carried out in the UK over the last 20 years, it's a disgrace. Good people have died up and down the country because of people like her and to say she could be brought back and used as someone to say terrorism is bad is just a joke

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They see the whole of western society as a horror nation. They want to live under Islamic law. The soft touch approach definitely doesn't work, look how many attacks have been carried out in the UK over the last 20 years, it's a disgrace. Good people have died up and down the country because of people like her and to say she could be brought back and used as someone to say terrorism is bad is just a joke

What “touch” exactly do you think will “work “ - the country went to war against radicals killing them in their droves by drones and air strikes , invaded their homes to remove their leaders - how did that work out ?

Good people have been killed by terrorists for decades now and we have our justice system in place to deal with them

 

[Parsaregood]

What “touch” exactly do you think will “work “ - the country went to war against radicals killing them in their droves by drones and air strikes , invaded their homes to remove their leaders - how did that work out ?

Good people have been killed by terrorists for decades now and we have our justice system in place to deal with them

They haven't gotten rid of the ones living within our society, so cracking down on that and monitoring family of known terrorist associates. More attention paid to people coming into the country and rigorous checks made on them would at least help

 

[SocketRocket]

Well first thing the death penalty as a deterrent doesn’t work - in fact it would turn people into martyrs and allow them figures they could look up to.

She has given one interview so far and still within the reaches of ISIS so it’s prob not the best idea to “denounce” considering where she is - sit her down with security authorities and social worker and then an assessment is made - show the UK isn’t the “ horror nation”that it’s portrayed by the radicals

Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "Horror Nation" If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.

I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They haven't gotten rid of the ones living within our society, so cracking down on that and monitoring family of known terrorist associates. More attention paid to people coming into the country and rigorous checks made on them would at least help

“Gotten rid of” ?!

Do you mean caught , investigated ,charged and then punished by our justice system ?

I suspect our security services are doing the best they can with the constraints of their budget. Not one security service or border police will ever be 100% foolproof

 

[Sweep]

No, it was worse than that. I actually thought Maggie was doing a good job

It sounds like you were a sensible young chap. 😀

 

[Pin-seeker]

Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "Horror Nation" If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.

I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.

The good old saint Phillip act.
Look how PC I am everyone🙄

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "Horror Nation" If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.

I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.

So resorting to the level of posts that you constantly complain about. What was it you call it “mandatory insult”

Please stick to the subject - this isn’t the Brexit thread where you think you can bully people’s opinions

 

[pokerjoke]

The good old saint Phillip act.
Look how PC I am everyone🙄

What does the P stand for

 

[Sweep]

I wonder how the families of those aid workers who were beheaded feel when they hear people say we should let her back in, sit down with her and her social worker, have a nice cup of tea and a chat and see if we can make her understand what a naughty girl she has been.
As all of us are lucky and have not been directly affected, maybe the acid test would be what we would rather say to the widows and families of one of those poor men. To their face, would you rather tell them we are going to let her back in and try to rehabilitate her back into society or tell them we are not going to let her anywhere near the UK and if that means breaking laws then so be it and if the law is wrong then we are going to change it?
I know what I would rather tell them. I am more interested in the welfare of the victims than the supporters of terrorists. I am amazed there are people who put the terrorists first, but there you go.
A governments first duty is to protect its people. They cannot let someone like this back in and claim they are fulfilling this duty.

 

[Dibby]

I wonder how the families of those aid workers who were beheaded feel when they hear people say we should let her back in, sit down with her and her social worker, have a nice cup of tea and a chat and see if we can make her understand what a naughty girl she has been.
As all of us are lucky and have not been directly affected, maybe the acid test would be what we would rather say to the widows and families of one of those poor men. To their face, would you rather tell them we are going to let her back in and try to rehabilitate her back into society or tell them we are not going to let her anywhere near the UK and if that means breaking laws then so be it and if the law is wrong then we are going to change it?
I know what I would rather tell them. I am more interested in the welfare of the victims than the supporters of terrorists. I am amazed there are people who put the terrorists first, but there you go.
A governments first duty is to protect its people. They cannot let someone like this back in and claim they are fulfilling this duty.

Look at the history of executions in the US, as these are covered in the press, it's very easy to get final statements of the executed and the reaction from the victim's relatives if they attended the execution. Unsurprisingly there is a whole host of feelings from the victim's families, from those glad of vengeance and feel some form of release from the execution, like you suggest you would, to those who feel sad that an additional human life has been lost, even though that person took away the life of a loved one.

Funny really isn't it, lots of different people have lots of different viewpoints. It's fine that we all have different opinions, but we can't start projecting our opinions on others, and assume they think like us. There isn't a one size fits all approach, so we can't say what the families of those beheaded would think, no doubt some would want vengeance and some would want no more killing, just like the families of murder victims.

 

[SocketRocket]

So resorting to the level of posts that you constantly complain about. What was it you call it “mandatory insult”

Please stick to the subject - this isn’t the Brexit thread where you think you can bully people’s opinions

I've never used 'mandatory' insult' i think you made that up. I think you are the one 'bullying peoples opinions' with your holier than thou sanctimonious moral high ground seeking. Maybe you can accept others have different views to you on this subject and dont like you vilifying them with accusations they are racist and bigoted.

 

[Sweep]

Look at the history of executions in the US, as these are covered in the press, it's very easy to get final statements of the executed and the reaction from the victim's relatives if they attended the execution. Unsurprisingly there is a whole host of feelings from the victim's families, from those glad of vengeance and feel some form of release from the execution, like you suggest you would, to those who feel sad that an additional human life has been lost, even though that person took away the life of a loved one.

Funny really isn't it, lots of different people have lots of different viewpoints. It's fine that we all have different opinions, but we can't start projecting our opinions on others, and assume they think like us. There isn't a one size fits all approach, so we can't say what the families of those beheaded would think, no doubt some would want vengeance and some would want no more killing, just like the families of murder victims.

I agree, but we are not talking about executing this woman. Nor are we speculating on what the victims of ISIS families might think. My question was what would be rather tell them. To their face?
It’s easy being all nicey nicey on a golf forum and displaying our wonderful liberal attitude, but for many this is real. Very real in a way we cannot imagine. I am just saying I know what I would rather tell them. And I would rsther assure them that there are those of us who are still prepared to put the victims first.
Maybe we should be thinking of them rather than the plight of this woman? They do seem to have been forgotten in all this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I've never used 'mandatory' insult' i think you made that up. I think you are the one 'bullying peoples opinions' with your holier than thou sanctimonious moral high ground seeking. Maybe you can accept others have different views to you on this subject and dont like you vilifying them with accusations they are racist and bigoted.

You are a bit odd. In your post you mentioned Brexit and the border, are you now denying it with the mandatory insult to back it up.

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...le-50-the-phoenix.97927/page-261#post-1950238

I have posted nothing but my opinion on the situation and countered other people’s opinion and just stuck to the subject - you have multiple times posted in the manner that you constantly complain about elsewhere - going on about my “self esteem” ?! - not once called anyone a racist or a bigot. You are doing nothing but posting against the poster ( something else you have complained about ) and quite clearly posting cheap digs against other posters. Your posts on here have added nothing but to antagonise people and to attempt to deride others opinions. You can continue to do so but then you cannot complain when people replicate the same against yourself. I left the Brexit thread due to the way you talked to posters on there and didn’t expect you to post anywhere else - time to avoid you on here as well.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree, but we are not talking about executing this woman. Nor are we speculating on what the victims of ISIS families might think. My question was what would be rather tell them. To their face?
It’s easy being all nicey nicey on a golf forum and displaying our wonderful liberal attitude, but for many this is real. Very real in a way we cannot imagine. I am just saying I know what I would rather tell them. And I would rsther assure them that there are those of us who are still prepared to put the victims first.
Maybe we should be thinking of them rather than the plight of this woman? They do seem to have been forgotten in all this.

People have talked about executing the girl -

And the thread is about the girl so people are going to talk about her and what to do with her and what happens with her - there have been many threads through the years of the affects of ISIS on people and there families

I don’t believe one single person is putting this girl before the victims and to suggest people are putting the terrorists first is poor - the governments first objective is to carry out the laws and use the justice system , by doing that they aren’t putting the needs of the terrorist first in any way shape or form

 

[ColchesterFC]

Without commenting on whether she should or shouldn't be allowed to return I'm glad that it's not me that has to make that decision. I can just imagine the dinner table conversation a few months down the line if it all goes horribly wrong.....

"How was your day dear?"
"Not bad. I had a meeting with Colin from purchasing about whether we can afford to buy the more expensive paper for the photocopier. How was your day?"
"Not the best. Do you remember 6 months ago when I had to make the decision on whether that woman that left the UK to support ISIS in Syria wanted to come home and I said she didn't pose a significant risk to the public? Well it turns out that today she, and three of her friends, strapped on explosive vests and blew themselves up on the underground. I've had better days".

Now I'm not suggesting that this woman will do this but imagine being the person that had to make the decision that allowed her back in to the country if the above did happen.

EDIT - and that's without considering the witch hunt by the UK press looking for who is to blame.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Without commenting on whether she should or shouldn't be allowed to return I'm glad that it's not me that has to make that decision. I can just imagine the dinner table conversation a few months down the line if it all goes horribly wrong.....

"How was your day dear?"
"Not bad. I had a meeting with Colin from purchasing about whether we can afford to buy the more expensive paper for the photocopier. How was your day?"
"Not the best. Do you remember 6 months ago when I had to make the decision on whether that woman that left the UK to support ISIS in Syria wanted to come home and I said she didn't pose a significant risk to the public? Well it turns out that today she, and three of her friends, strapped on explosive vests and blew themselves up on the underground. I've had better days".

Now I'm not suggesting that this woman will do this but imagine being the person that had to make the decision that allowed her back in to the country if the above did happen.

EDIT - and that's without considering the witch hunt by the UK press looking for who is to blame.

It’s just got to be a job when you end up going numb with no emotions - it’s the same as a police officer that stops someone finds nothing and they go on and commit a horrific crime.

They should be guilt free if they have done their job properly but as you say the witch hunt from the media etc won’t allow that to happened especially if it’s high profile

If this girl does manage to get to a British Embassy then I expect it will be new identity time and all down under the radar and then watched like a hawk for a long time. It’s a tough call for the person behind the desk

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’s just got to be a job when you end up going numb with no emotions - it’s the same as a police officer that stops someone finds nothing and they go on and commit a horrific crime.

They should be guilt free if they have done their job properly but as you say the witch hunt from the media etc won’t allow that to happened especially if it’s high profile

If this girl does manage to get to a British Embassy then I expect it will be new identity time and all down under the radar and then watched like a hawk for a long time. It’s a tough call for the person behind the desk

You don’t want her back.
You suspect she may not of carried out any terrorist attack.
You expect if she manages to get to an Embassy you expect the Government to give her a new identity, hide that information from the public then watch her like a hawk.

Just how much is that going to cost and why shouldn’t the public be aware.

Your doing a lot of speculation for someone who was sticking to facts over her legal status.

 

[SocketRocket]

You don’t want her back.
You suspect she may not of carried out any terrorist attack.
You expect if she manages to get to an Embassy you expect the Government to give her a new identity, hide that information from the public then watch her like a hawk.

Just how much is that going to cost and why shouldn’t the public be aware.

Your doing a lot of speculation for someone who was sticking to facts over her legal status.

In fairness he also wants her to sit down and have a cup of tea with a social worker.