Short Game Thoughts

[Orikoru]

Bored in the office and my thoughts are being consumed with short game at the moment, so I thought I'd make a long, rambling thread about it.

Here's an interesting video I watched the other day:
Alex Elliott getting a chipping lesson from Justin Rose's coach.

The interesting part is early on when he says he's been trying to use the bounce more and thinks that has killed his chipping. The coach agrees and says the best players all chip with hands a little bit forward, and essentially that 'using the bounce' consciously is a myth. A lot of you would have watched Dan Grieve's videos, where he says differently and teaches a 'release 2' where the hands aren't forward and you don't even strike ball first in some cases. If you haven't seen his stuff, here's the latest example:
Dan Grieve 'release 2' common mistakes.

I think maybe I'm in the same boat as Elliott here and trying to use bounce has messed me up a little bit. When I had my chipping lesson three months ago, he taught it like the coach in this video, he me open my stance a fair bit in order to leave room for me to keep my hands in front of the ball - there was no talk of 'using bounce' that I can recall. My chipping has been up and down since the lesson I'd say, some days it's decent, other days I have a mare and cannot get the low point correct. I've also lost the ability to hit little chip and runs with a PW or other less-lofted type clubs - I keep getting this weird yip that knifes the ball when I try that. But chipping with 50 & 54 has been ok - perhaps more loft lets me swing a bit longer and looser without fear it's going to go miles, whereas with less loft I'm very stabby. However, when I do want use a low bump and run I use my hybrid with a putting stroke and that has worked very well for me.

It's obviously a confidence/pressure related activity as well, because on my lunch-time practice knock yesterday I hit a couple of superb chips - nothing riding on it, so arms are relaxed and hands are softer. The whole strike / bounce thing has even more prevalence now we're in winter as well, as surely actively using bounce runs the risk of just hitting wet mud and causing a duff.

So what sort of chipping method are you most akin to? Are you hands forward at all times or using the bounce a bit more? Can you chip with all different clubs or do you stick to the higher lofted wedges or one club in particular?

I think I'm going to stick with the hands forward technique (unless I'm having to flop it over something of course) - using 50 mostly if I want it to release a bit, or 54 if I need a bit of height and less release. I chipped quite well in my last round but everything was stopping a good 10 or 12 feet short as I haven't got used to my landing spots yet on the softer greens - need to start flying it a bit further. Another thing I think might help me is to stop focusing on my technique while I'm chipping and just focus on a precise landing spot - I've not really tried this before, but I usually play better when I'm focused on target rather than what I'm doing.

 

[irip]

Chipping has always been the worse part of my game.

It got to a stage where my head was full of different ideas and I ended up just quitting half way through the swing.

I found for me the best thing was to try not to think too much and just walk up and hit the chip.

I might have a practice swing but I would deliberately face away from the green then just walk up and hit it.

It was far from perfect but it was better than what I was doing.

 

[Mel Smooth]

If you are watching multiple videos that gove conflicting information then how do you expect to improve. I rarely watch coaching videos, I do however harvest as much information as I can for myself when Jamie has one of his regular coaching sessions.

Chipping basics are weight on left side (right handed players) hands forward, and use the body to pull the arms through the shot.

If you want worthwhile improvement you've got to get tailored tuition imho.

Install some basics then spend time working on those things rather than trawling the internet to see if somebody else disagrees with those methods - which they invariably will.

 

[Springveldt]

Playing a links course for the last 2 and a bit years one of the first things I learned was that the bounce was not your friend, so I’ve been chipping with my hands forward. To be honest I was doing that before joining my current place as I could never get the hang of it”using the bounce” anyway as it just meant you were fatting it.

I think the bounce stuff might work out of Bermuda or other grass types in the US but I’ve never been able to use it. Hands forward, weight forward and quite steep works way better for me.

 

[Neilds]

If you are watching multiple videos that gove conflicting information then how do you expect to improve. I rarely watch coaching videos, I do however harvest as much information as I can for myself when Jamie has one of his regular coaching sessions.

Chipping basics are weight on right side, hands forward, and use the body to pull the arms through the shot.

If you want worthwhile improvement you've got to get tailored tuition imho.

Install some basics then spend time working on those things rather than trawling the internet to see if somebody else disagrees with those methods - which they invariably will.

Are you left handed? If not, I thought this was the complete opposite of what is taught in most cases.

Totally agree with your the rest of your post, YouTube can be a minefield for most, so much conflicting advice. Stick to one pro with one method.

 

[rulie]

I was taught to chip with open stance, feet closer together, weight forward, ball back and hands forward. Still do that, with some circumstantial adjustments (lobs etc), but never consider "bounce". I'll use anything from 7 iron to 56* wedge depending on the lie and conditions, and prefer the lower lofts (chip and run). I don't focus on a landing spot, just concentrate on getting it close to the hole and let my body decide how to hit it. Practice, practice, practice. When I used to practice with my own balls and shag bag, I'd hit all the balls with say an 8 iron, then put the shag bag in the approximate middle of the dispersion and chip them all back to the shag bag. Miss doing that and can't do it at driving ranges!

 

[jim8flog]

When I used to practice my chipping/pitching a lot I was not even aware for a long time what bounce was about and shortly afterwards believed it mainly about what type of wedge to use in the bunker according to sand type.

Most of my wedge techniques were learnt from watching Nick Faldo's Golf course Videos and pretty sure bounce was never mentioned. From memory most of the importance was placed on ball position and the swing to achieve the height or lack of it you wanted, .eg swing out to in for high stop and drop and swing in to out for chip and run, with appropriate ball position.

When it came to practice I used to spend ages on just trying things out and seeing what happened but back then (as now) time was unimportant and I probably hit about 1000 balls a week just on short game practice.

 

[Orikoru]

I found for me the best thing was to try not to think too much and just walk up and hit the chip.

So true.. as I mentioned, little practice knock yesterday, nothing riding on it, just selected a club, committed and hit it. Why can't I do that in a proper round? Going to try anyway.

If you are watching multiple videos that gove conflicting information then how do you expect to improve. I rarely watch coaching videos, I do however harvest as much information as I can for myself when Jamie has one of his regular coaching sessions.

Chipping basics are weight on right side, hands forward, and use the body to pull the arms through the shot.

If you want worthwhile improvement you've got to get tailored tuition imho.

Install some basics then spend time working on those things rather than trawling the internet to see if somebody else disagrees with those methods - which they invariably will.

I simply posted the two videos to show that there are conflicting ideas out there, and how there seems to be multiple ways to skin the cat. If you were using the bounce a la Dan Grieve and it isn't working why wouldn't you try a different approach? And as Neil said earlier, I assume you are left-handed as the general consensus is to keep weight on the left/lead side.

 

[irip]

So true.. as I mentioned, little practice knock yesterday, nothing riding on it, just selected a club, committed and hit it. Why can't I do that in a proper round? Going to try anyway.


I simply posted the two videos to show that there are conflicting ideas out there, and how there seems to be multiple ways to skin the cat. If you were using the bounce a la Dan Grieve and it isn't working why wouldn't you try a different approach? And as Nick said earlier, I assume you are left-handed as the general consensus is to keep weight on the left/lead side.

I’m not advocating it’s the right way or the best way but it worked for me.
I also was not afraid to use my putter from off the green. It’s hard to chunk a putter

 

[Orikoru]

I’m not advocating it’s the right way or the best way but it worked for me.
I also was not afraid to use my putter from off the green. It’s hard to chunk a putter

I really struggle with this. Cannot gauge how hard to hit it to get through the longer grass bit, and invariably end up leaving it ten feet short. I get much closer by bumping it with the hybrid, because it jumps the first couple of feet so it clears the longer grass nicely.

 

[Neilds]

And as Nick said earlier, I assume you are left-handed as the general consensus is to keep weight on the left/lead side.

Who????

 

[Mel Smooth]

Are you left handed? If not, I thought this was the complete opposite of what is taught in most cases.

Totally agree with your the rest of your post, YouTube can be a minefield for most, so much conflicting advice. Stick to one pro with one method.

Apologies - amended. I was a bit hasty to post without typing out what I was actually thinking.

 

[Orikoru]

Who????

Shut up Nick!

 

[jamielaing]

Bounce depends on your swing. There are sweepers and diggers. If you are a digger (take a divot on chips/pitches) bounce helps and 'bounces' the club to the ball. If you sweep (no or minimal divot) bounce causes thins.

That being said, Dan Grieve's system regardless of this style is supreme. I take no divot but using the 3 release system makes life so much easier for your decision making and execution of the shot. I am sure I am not using it exactly how Dan would have designed it but it works. But he doesn't say to have the hands behind the ball on any of his shots, its all about how your hands come into the ball and how your wrists work in the shot.

 

[nickjdavis]

Shut up Nick!

I didnt say anything!!!

 

[Orikoru]

I didnt say anything!!!

Stay out of this, Neil.

 

[kp17]

May well work for others but these instruction videos, Dan grieve etc do more harm than good to me.
I’ve been there, watched and tried everything. But I find when concentrating on technical things and too many thoughts going through the head I’ll duff it in front of me or blade it through the back.

What works is practice, not much thoughts, just feels, bag of balls and just keep pitching, I’ll stick the earphones in too a lot of the time. The bad ones become less and less.
I’m by no means a short game genius but after maybe say a few weeks of practice, proper sessions for say a couple hour at a time, once out on course the improvements are clear as day.

 

[Orikoru]

One thing I have remind myself sometimes is that I seem to chip better with less wrist hinge. When I'm struggling with low point on chipping it's often because I've started hinging the wrists more without realising. If I keep the wrists a bit quieter I have better results.

 

[sjw]

A whole section of Dan Grieve's book is on "golfing IQ", which is selecting the right shot. You're right that he encourages the use of the bounce for a release 2, but the golfing IQ section will say something like, if you're on wet ground with a bare lie, don't choose release 2. It's not just about technique

Personally, I've only really read the technique chapters and that's why I think I hit so many fats at the moment!

What I like about his approach is that it's all very logical; one thing follows on from another. For example, he says that for release 2, you want to use the middle of the bounce. The natural way to want to do this is to hit the ball later in the arc, and sure enough when you read on, in the setup for a release 2 you have the ball further forward vs a release 1. As you've done in your OP, you might think, well I'm going to end up fatting it on the wrong type of lie, and you'd be right, and he goes on to talk about that as well. You can almost work out what he's going to say next from the information you've already been given.

In winter, he advocates playing a release 1 (like a bump and run) unless the situation is perfect. The different releases are just starting points and the whole aim is to get you thinking about how the club, turf/ground and ball are going to interact to build up the shot you want to pull off -- and the one that looks best from behind the ball in terms of desired flight and landing area might not necessarily be on because of the lie, for example.

 

[rulie]

One thing I have remind myself sometimes is that I seem to chip better with less wrist hinge. When I'm struggling with low point on chipping it's often because I've started hinging the wrists more without realising. If I keep the wrists a bit quieter I have better results.

If you wear a golf glove, try sticking a comb in the back of of the glove so that the comb extends up to your wrist and practice like that.