Shoreham Air Display Disaster - Flowers

[FairwayDodger]

But maybe those families facing the loss find comfort in an old fashioned way - through the service - even although they might not generally identify themselves with any real religious beliefs. Many of us still go to church for major life events and important days in the religious calendar so I guess there is still something there for non-believers.

I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.

 

[Golfmmad]

I don't get it either. It's obviously a tragic event but I don't know why people with no connection feel the need to grieve.

Or another way of looking at it:

Through my work I drive along that section of the A27 weekly, sometimes several times a day. I wasn't working last Saturday but 2 of our drivers were on the very section of road 3 hours before. My boss passed through just 10 minutes before the accident! He had special tickets for the game at Brighton&Hove Albion football match and decided to leave 10 minutes earlier than usual!

It was reported today that all the victims have now been identified. Most of them are from the local area.

As well as feeling deep sympathy for those that have lost their lives,
I expect a lot of local people (including myself) have been thinking - "That could so easily have been me or my family or a close friend.

I think that's a good enough reason for the outpouring of grief from a lot of the people that have not been directly affected, and not for some of the of the reasons that have been suggested.

 

[FairwayDodger]

It's a fair point,golf mad. Although you can see why the people you describe feel a connection.

I found out today that a colleague was one of those who died in a different incident that I'd seen on the news and I immediately felt more affected than I had been initially. Even though he worked in a different office and I'd never actually met him.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.

I'd truck with this. Each to their own but I wouldn't be rushing to the florists unless I was personally involved.

As for the lack of faith being a factor? I don't think so. Been to a funeral today and there was a humanist service, was really touching, made everyone think about their place in the universe, and our short time in it. About time we did move on and deal with grief in different ways and celebrate the life we have/had rather than spending it preparing for one that in all probability doesn't happen.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.

No problem - didn't take it at all as a criticism. I'm just try to get behind 'the flowers' and 'public displays of grief' thing - when it is relatively new - since Di as someone mentioned? And I am not criticising either.

I just find it something I cannot ever really see me doing - and I'm wondering if there is more to it (for me) than just not being that sort of guy. Is it because I have a faith and have a personal understanding of the power of acceptance and prayer that I feel no need for anything else. And so is it perhaps because others don't, that they feel the need for the flowers. I don;t know.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Or another way of looking at it:

Through my work I drive along that section of the A27 weekly, sometimes several times a day. I wasn't working last Saturday but 2 of our drivers were on the very section of road 3 hours before. My boss passed through just 10 minutes before the accident! He had special tickets for the game at Brighton&Hove Albion football match and decided to leave 10 minutes earlier than usual!

It was reported today that all the victims have now been identified. Most of them are from the local area.

As well as feeling deep sympathy for those that have lost their lives,
I expect a lot of local people (including myself) have been thinking - "That could so easily have been me or my family or a close friend.

I think that's a good enough reason for the outpouring of grief from a lot of the people that have not been directly affected, and not for some of the of the reasons that have been suggested.

Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that you might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible. If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Public reactions to people passing away has been happening before Di died. Just as laying flowers at scenes of accidents has happened for a long time

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd truck with this. Each to their own but I wouldn't be rushing to the florists unless I was personally involved.

As for the lack of faith being a factor? I don't think so. Been to a funeral today and there was a humanist service, was really touching, made everyone think about their place in the universe, and our short time in it. About time we did move on and deal with grief in different ways and celebrate the life we have/had rather than spending it preparing for one that in all probability doesn't happen.

In the context of what I'm trying to get at I think I'd put humanism in the same place as a religious faith. It's about having coping and acceptance mechanisms that help us live life on life's terms sort of stuff. The ability to 'hand-over' stuff that we can't do anything about and so not carry it as grief or anger when we just don't need to and that make our ability to cope with things that really DO matter to us all the less.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Maybe it is because there is a simple truth in the words of John Donne

".. any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.."

People feel a connection and a need to express it.

 

[Golfmmad]

It's a fair point,golf mad. Although you can see why the people you describe feel a connection.

I found out today that a colleague was one of those who died in a different incident that I'd seen on the news and I immediately felt more affected than I had been initially. Even though he worked in a different office and I'd never actually met him.

Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that you might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible. If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.

I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to convey.

But fairwayDodger has got it - :thup:

I'm still trying to think of what the "Butterfly effect" means. :confuse

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that you might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible. If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.

Huh?? How do you work that one out? if you were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then you got caught up in it. agree that the chances of any particular individual being involved are small. but you are missing the point

which is that a number of towns in that area have experienced a traumatic tragedy, those 11 who unfortunately died would have been known by many many people, so im guessing that lots of local people would know a family that has been affected. and this is a way for the community to show its feelings.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A lot of the flowers and cards left on the bridge are from the local community and those that were at the airshow. Given the severity and devastation of the accident you can understand the sense of disbelief and certainly for some travelling on the road "there by the grace of god". I don't think it's a bad thing. Not something I'd consider doing but I can see why people have

 

[drdel]

The people caught up in this awful accident have my sympathy.

However I personally find this trend to be somewhat distasteful; almost attention seeking. The need to showoff seems a trend in society that has crossed into most areas of life. Everything seems to require a 'presentation' - even jobs for cleaners!

When the visual 'picture' takes over from the substance things have gone astray.

 

[JustOne]

The people caught up in this awful accident have my sympathy.

However I personally find this trend to be somewhat distasteful; almost attention seeking. The need to showoff seems a trend in society that has crossed into most areas of life. Everything seems to require a 'presentation' - even jobs for cleaners!

When the visual 'picture' takes over from the substance things have gone astray.

I have seen the flowers... didn't notice anyone 'showing off', if they were I must've missed it, or what 'substance' is/has been missing?

It's not the good old days any more, social media/internet is a place people turn to nowadays (as does the media reporting) so sitting quietly in a church congregation isn't necessarily behaving the way people are 'supposed to'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Huh?? How do you work that one out? if you were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then you got caught up in it. agree that the chances of any particular individual being involved are small. but you are missing the point

which is that a number of towns in that area have experienced a traumatic tragedy, those 11 who unfortunately died would have been known by many many people, so im guessing that lots of local people would know a family that has been affected. and this is a way for the community to show its feelings.

Because the air crash was such an improbable event; as was the aircraft landing on the road as it did; with the particular combination of vehicles. We had the outcome that happened. Change the vehicles on the road you have a different scenario and hence it is quite probable that the aircraft would not have crashed or it would not have crashed precisely where it did. Change just one car on the road you have a new scenario - perhaps exactly the same associated probabilities - but then these are just probabilities not actuals. I don't believe you can play 'what-if' scenarios changing the details of just one very specific element of an scenario that has happened - you have to look at the probabilities of the new scenario.

 

[JustOne]

Because the air crash was such an improbable event; as was the aircraft landing on the road as it did; with the particular combination of vehicles. We had the outcome that happened. Change the vehicles on the road you have a different scenario and hence it is quite probable that the aircraft would not have crashed or it would not have crashed precisely where it did. Change just one car on the road you have a new scenario - perhaps exactly the same associated probabilities - but then these are just probabilities not actuals. I don't believe you can play 'what-if' scenarios changing the details of just one very specific element of an scenario that has happened - you have to look at the probabilities of the new scenario.

I'm sure that'll comfort those that lost their loved ones.....

Stick to prayer :thup:

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to convey.

But fairwayDodger has got it - :thup:

I'm still trying to think of what the "Butterfly effect" means. :confuse

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

And yes I did copy that from wikipedia

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

And yes I did copy that from wikipedia

So I tiny change in the initial conditions for the aircraft, pilot and weather may well have resulted in the air crash not happening at all. And in a similar way tiny changes would have changed the drivers on the road and bystanders watching. All I'm saying is that it is one horrid scenario and combination of circumstances, and though it is natural to contemplate 'what-if' I had been on the road at the time - the probability is that the aircraft wouldn't have come down.

The calamity should be considered for what it was - terrible for all those involved. But we do instinctively involve ourselves and project on outcomes if there is a possibility we might have been there also. I'm not saying any that of the feelings and displays of concern and sympathy are at all out of place - of course they are not. I was just wondering why - these days more than in the past (seemingly) - many of us get quite so emotionally involved in this sort of way. And some have already explained why they think that's the case - and I don't disagree.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sure that'll comfort those that lost their loved ones.....

Stick to prayer :thup:

Not sure why you say that. Seems a little sneering and in this context I don't think that's necessary.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So I tiny change in the initial conditions for the aircraft, pilot and weather may well have resulted in the air crash not happening at all. And in a similar way tiny changes would have changed the drivers on the road and bystanders watching. All I'm saying is that it is one horrid scenario and combination of circumstances, and though it is natural to contemplate 'what-if' I had been on the road at the time - the probability is that the aircraft wouldn't have come down.

Errrr conversational gonads IMO