Colin L
Tour Winner
Not quite - as long as he played his second ball from where he played his previous shot (as he seemed intent on doing) he has correctly substituted a ball under 27-1a as suggested above. Messages passing in the ether!
Semi lost ball?
- Thread starter romsyam
- Start date
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
The you go, you get a lift, clean and drop
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I love it when people say that. Absolutely true....but even tour pros that play the game for a living don't always get it right.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
And forever get referees over to check
Colin L
Tour Winner
Nor do the referees whose job it is to keep them right.:lol:
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
You're not the only one who has been told told this - I have been too. essentially was told that I soon as I started walking back, that was it - commited. Which why I checked at the time - but I mistakenly believed that I was ok up to the point of making the stroke. But having rechecked just now, find it's the drop that's the critical point.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - you only need to know 2-5 and 3-3 (as well as the etiquette). They cover what to do if you don't know the rules in matchplay, or strokeplay...........
The Pro's know to call a RO - although they occasionally make the expensive mistake of not doing that. They don't call the RO to find out the rule, they call them to re-insure themselves regarding what they can't know but other's can establish. Exactly the same principle as 3-3 for those without a committee member or RO next to them (and the former shouldn't really act alone in an event they are participating in either)
Ethan
Money List Winner
I think some of the confusion arises because the walk back starts after 5 minutes, so is de facto an acknowledgement that the ball is lost, but one that is mistakenly associated with the walk rather than the clock ticking 5.
There are R&A decisions on the effect of walking off the tee on the ability to hit a provisional. If you leave the tee after hitting a shot, you can't just walk back to hit a provisional, you can only walk back to hit a new tee shot. But there is a degree of discretion (aka common sense) involved.
surely if you play a shot and its a blind hole, start walking, partners then say that could be OB or lost, is the R&A saying you MUST then keep walking to ensure its OB or lost, or put another new ball in play playing 3 off the tee? or is your last sentence an R&A get out clause as common sense should certainly prevail.
Colin L
Tour Winner
See Decision 27-2a/1.5
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-27/#27-2a/1.5
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-27/#27-2a/1.5
Ethan
Money List Winner
It's not completely black and white, but it appears that the intent is that if you have started to look for a ball or have proceeded a decent distance in its likely direction, then you can't play a provo, you can only play 3 off the tee.
The FAQs for 27-2 include a question:
Question: May a player, after going forward to search for a ball, return to where he last played from in order to play a provisional?
Answer: No. If the player did so, the second ball would become the ball in play and the original ball would be lost (see Rule 27-2a and definition "lost ball"). He must play a provisional ball before "going forward to search" as the principle behind the provisional ball rule is saving time.
and there is also a decision which further elaborates:
Decision 27-2a/1.5. Meaning of "goes forward to search"
Q. With respect to Rule 27-2a, when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?
A. The sole purpose of Rule 27-2 is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g. in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.
CliveW
Tour Winner
My understanding of this decision is, for example, you leave your clubs in front of the tee and you have walked back to the tee to play your original shot. It allows you to walk from the tee to your bag to get another ball or change club and then walk back to the tee to play your provisional.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I agree, although it is somewhat unnecessary in that regard as you can easily declare your intention to get a provisional, then state that you need to get one from your bag. The decision is stated in somewhat more ambiguous terms, though.
Suppose you were playing a new course with a blind tee shot and you hit a tee shot down what you thought was a safe line, then 50 yards up the fairway you saw a sharper dogleg than you expected or new bushes not on the course planner. You may think it then wise to play a provo. Is that permitted?
Colin L
Tour Winner
Going for a different club or to get another ball is specifically sanctioned as is being said. Chances are you will have said what you intend to do, but your actions will clearly show your intention. Going back to your bag , putting your club away and hesitating because you think maybe you should have played a PB and then going back on to the tee to do so would, in my view also be ok. You are, in terms of the rule, saving time and have not headed off "in search of your ball."
Putting your club back in the bag, and setting off forwards expresses a different intention: you are clearly going forward in search of your ball. So how far forward could you be allowed and still meet the criterion of saving time? Not far at all, I reckon. What we need to consider is the point at which the time saved by playing a PB should your original ball be lost, is overtaken by the time lost going forward a bit, then back to play a PB, then forward again should your original ball be found.
The rationale is, I think, that playing a PB immediately takes up an insignificant amount of extra time should you find your original ball and obviously saves a great deal if you don't. Coming back from even as short a distance as, say, 30 yards takes up an appreciable few minutes. Because there is a good chance (finding your original) that this time is wasted, the sole purpose of saving time would not be met. It has to be pretty tight: the wording is not "the sole of purpose of possibly saving time".
Deciding 50 yards up the fairway and going back would be clearly be out of order. That's 50 yards of going forward to search for your ball, with a goodly chance that the time spent on the 100 yard walk to play a PB is wasted because your original is found.
Personally, I wouldn't be happy with more than around 20 yards - in effect clearing the front of the tee or clearly and purposefully walking on with your club back in the bag from a shot through the green.
Putting your club back in the bag, and setting off forwards expresses a different intention: you are clearly going forward in search of your ball. So how far forward could you be allowed and still meet the criterion of saving time? Not far at all, I reckon. What we need to consider is the point at which the time saved by playing a PB should your original ball be lost, is overtaken by the time lost going forward a bit, then back to play a PB, then forward again should your original ball be found.
The rationale is, I think, that playing a PB immediately takes up an insignificant amount of extra time should you find your original ball and obviously saves a great deal if you don't. Coming back from even as short a distance as, say, 30 yards takes up an appreciable few minutes. Because there is a good chance (finding your original) that this time is wasted, the sole purpose of saving time would not be met. It has to be pretty tight: the wording is not "the sole of purpose of possibly saving time".
Deciding 50 yards up the fairway and going back would be clearly be out of order. That's 50 yards of going forward to search for your ball, with a goodly chance that the time spent on the 100 yard walk to play a PB is wasted because your original is found.
Personally, I wouldn't be happy with more than around 20 yards - in effect clearing the front of the tee or clearly and purposefully walking on with your club back in the bag from a shot through the green.
North Mimms
Tour Winner
Why do people post things contradictory like this as "fact" when it has already been discussed on the thread, and they are just confusing the issue?
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Human error, have you never made a mistake?
Foxholer
Blackballed
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Some of us don't make miskates!
Indeed Foxholer, I've noticed in my relatively short time on here there are a few people that are very quick to jump down other people's throats.......
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Indeed Foxholer, I've noticed in my relatively short time on here there are a few people that are very quick to jump down other people's throats.......
No we're not
chrisd
Major Champion
As an aside, but interested me reading the USPG link to decisions kindly given by Colin
You hit a ball that appears to be going OOB, you declare and play a provisional that also looks to be going OOB, you simply play a third ball without declaring it another provisional and, if you find your first ball you can still play it. The reason - the third ball is only linked to the ball that preceeded it, so you couldn't play the first provisional, if found, as the next ball was the ball in play, but the third ball didn't count over the first ball.
Maybe clear as mud but something I would never have got right!
You hit a ball that appears to be going OOB, you declare and play a provisional that also looks to be going OOB, you simply play a third ball without declaring it another provisional and, if you find your first ball you can still play it. The reason - the third ball is only linked to the ball that preceeded it, so you couldn't play the first provisional, if found, as the next ball was the ball in play, but the third ball didn't count over the first ball.
Maybe clear as mud but something I would never have got right!
