AmandaJR
Money List Winner
Could be - they often behave like unruly children!
Semi lost ball?
- Thread starter romsyam
- Start date
Could be - they often behave like unruly children!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
For general info, Rule 27-1a allows us to play any time, anywhere from where the ball was last played under a 1 stroke penalty ("stroke and distance"). It's a handy rule to know when you have a rush of blood and overhit a putt past the hole, down a slope and into a bunker. (Yes, of course, I've done it) You might consider it a safer bet to take the penalty and putt again than to play out the bunker.
@Colin - this is possibly the best 'use the rules to your advantage' tip I think I have ever heard. I have been playing for 40 yrs - and have never thought about using the rule in this way - nor have I see or heard of another player doing so.
Loads of circumstances I would have used it in the past e.g. 2-tier green with big step. Flag on top tier on run-off to step. I'm three foot past the hole putting towards the step - miss and too strong - off down the slope and end up off the front of the green (down another slope). Total b****r of a shot back up two big steps etc. Hmmm - no thank you - I'll take stroke and distance penalty and replace my ball at the position I took my previous shot. So back to three foot past the hole. After all - I know the putt this time.
Brilliant tip. I wonder what my buddies, playing partner or opponents will think when I first use it
Doesn't feel right though...
Colin L
Tour Winner
I wonder what my buddies, playing partner or opponents will think when I first use it
It doesn't have to feel right, you just need to know it's right. Impress them by quoting the rule number at them. If they mutter at you, just say with casual surprise, "Oh didn't you realise I am proceeding under Rule 27-1a? I thought you would have known
."And you can cite two examples of players making good use of this rule. Me on the 16th at Baberton GC in a club stableford in 2002 and Tiger Woods on the 13th at Augusta in the Masters in 2005 (except his putt went into the water, mine into a bunker). There may be a world of difference between our playing abilities, but we play to the same rules.:thup:
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Not sure if it's what Foxholer had in mind but a wrong ball situation would arise if the original ball was found and played more than 5 minutes after the player had started searching for it. Decision 27/8 Ball Found After Search Exceeding Five Minutes Is Then Played.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Indeed - if that's what he had in mind. I was looking at the possibilities on the understanding that the ball was found in time.
ScienceBoy
Money List Winner
Just like most of my rules knowledge!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Good stuff - I was actually musing about whether the rule had been used by a player on the 13th at Augusta putting off the green into the water - Mr Woods indeed.It doesn't have to feel right, you just need to know it's right. Impress them by quoting the rule number at them. If they mutter at you, just say with casual surprise, "Oh didn't you realise I am proceeding under Rule 27-1a? I thought you would have known
And you can cite two examples of players making good use of this rule. Me on the 16th at Baberton GC in a club stableford in 2002 and Tiger Woods on the 13th at Augusta in the Masters in 2005 (except his putt went into the water, mine into a bunker). There may be a world of difference between our playing abilities, but we play to the same rules.:thup:
I shall most certainly always carry this little tip with me. We have quite a few greens where flag position can result in horrendous results if you get your putt even a little bit wrong. There are enough times when the rules 'feel' unfair - particularly when i don't get the 'relief' I might deem fair (in a recent comp such a ruling probably cost me 3 shots) - but them rules is them rules.
TheClaw
Q-School Graduate
@Colin - this is possibly the best 'use the rules to your advantage' tip I think I have ever heard. I have been playing for 40 yrs - and have never thought about using the rule in this way - nor have I see or heard of another player doing so.
Loads of circumstances I would have used it in the past e.g. 2-tier green with big step. Flag on top tier on run-off to step. I'm three foot past the hole putting towards the step - miss and too strong - off down the slope and end up off the front of the green (down another slope). Total b****r of a shot back up two big steps etc. Hmmm - no thank you - I'll take stroke and distance penalty and replace my ball at the position I took my previous shot. So back to three foot past the hole. After all - I know the putt this time.
Brilliant tip. I wonder what my buddies, playing partner or opponents will think when I first use it
Is this acceptable when rule 21 is titled 'ball out of bounds; ball not found within 5 minutes'. What if you hit the ball into the bunker but either you or your playing partner can still see it? It's clearly not lost.
Foxholer
Blackballed
For an NR to be the result...
If the original ball was deemed (incorrectly of course) lost, or the 5 mins search time had been exceeded, then that ball would have been out of play - so playing it would have been 'playing a wrong ball'. Failure to return to the spot where it was originally played might take priority, though the effect is the same. If the breach/error is not corrected before teeing off at the next hole, then DQ/NR.
Note that it is 5 mins SEARCH time. So if you head back to play another ball and (what seems like) the original is found within the 5 mins, then you have a reasonable time to identify the ball - so the entire process could take more than 5 mins.
There are Decisions that relates to both the above (27.1.2.3 and 27/5.5 resp).
In the interests of historical accuracy let me get these dates right: declaring a ball lost was born in the 1956 rule book and died in 1964. A brief and i expect problematic reign of 8 years .....and a post-mortem influence for 48 years and no doubt more to come.
Colin, that's very interesting and quite fascinating that a rule that died in 1964 is still misquoted 48 years later! I was 'declaring lost' up to a few years ago with no challenges and in fact penalised myself as I declared a ball lost after a minute, then found it seconds later, but didnt play it as I'd already declared the first lost
I've learned something useful today, that and rule 27-1a.
thank you :thup::whoo:
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Can I not declare a ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course and take stroke and distance? So par 4; on green regulation (two); putt off green (three); declare ball unplayable; take stroke and distance penalty and replace ball at point on green I putted it (four); hole putt (five).
Alternatively: on green (two); putt off green (three); play onto green (four); assume two putts (six).
Clearly the position of the flag and the length of putt are crucial - but that is just the point.
Or have I miscounted somewhere?
Colin L
Tour Winner
Yes, of course. As I said, I was responding to the OP's situation in which I understood his ball was found within 5 minutes, which doesn't give rise to a wrong ball.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
No probs at all.
Rule 27 is indeed titled "Ball Lost or Out of Bounds; Provsional Ball" but that's just the title.
Relevant clause under Rule 27 is
27-1 - Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
27-1a says
"a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e. proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance."
27-1b is Ball Out of Bounds and 27-1c is Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
So stroke and distance option is separate and unrelated to whether or not you can find the ball within 5 mins or is OOB.
Hence you can hit your ball into said bunker and without even bothering to look at it or for it, put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance.
The option to play again from the same spot if you declare your ball unplayable under the Unplayable Ball Rule (Rule 28) is in fact granted on the basis of your rights under Rule 27-1 to which Rule 28 refers.
So actually (whisper it) mulligans are allowed. They just cost you a penalty shot.
TheClaw
Q-School Graduate
No probs at all.
Rule 27 is indeed titled "Ball Lost or Out of Bounds; Provsional Ball" but that's just the title.
Relevant clause under Rule 27 is
27-1 - Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
27-1a says
"a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e. proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance."
27-1b is Ball Out of Bounds and 27-1c is Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
So stroke and distance option is separate and unrelated to whether or not you can find the ball within 5 mins or is OOB.
Hence you can hit your ball into said bunker and without even bothering to look at it or for it, put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance.
The option to play again from the same spot if you declare your ball unplayable under the Unplayable Ball Rule (Rule 28) is in fact granted on the basis of your rights under Rule 27-1 to which Rule 28 refers.
So actually (whisper it) mulligans are allowed. They just cost you a penalty shot.
Thanks, that's exactly what I was wondering.
CliveW
Tour Winner
There was no provisional ball in play according to the OP. As stated, a provisional ball has to be played before moving forward from where the original was played. You cannot go back and put a provisional ball in play.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
No, once you walk back that's it. I got caught out with this a couple of years ago in a singles match. My opponent was in the poo, after a fruitless search he walked back to play again. I then found his ball and shouted back to him but he pointed out that once he decides to walk he is effectively declaring the ball lost.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
You haven't read this whole thread have you?
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Nope
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
If you believe what you wrote is correct then you should read it.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Can anyone confirm that by declaring my ball unplayable (btw do I actually have to do that?) and proceeding as I describe under stroke & distance, and hole my putt for a five I am OK?
