Second Chances

[bladeplayer]

I have just been reading on Sky News that the Ched Evans Oldham move has been scrapped, didnt read the details , but ive seen other comments re sponsors pulling out etc if clubs sign him ..

Now this thread is NOT about the guilt or non guilt of him or anyone else for that matter . its just his story got me thinking .

If you commit a crime and get caught and serve your time , when you serve your sentence should / shouldnt you be allowed to get on with your life , i know sponsors have the right to invest their money as they see fit but is it fair that someone can pay their dues (for want of better term) but still carry the consequences , is this not a 2nd punishment ?..


I can appreciate the thoughts will vary differently if you were the family of the Victim over the family of the accused / guilty but what about as a complete stranger / outsider

Now i know this can be an emotive subject and if any mod wants to just pull the thread just work away guys for the rest of us just respect others answers even if they differ from your own please ,


Thanks

 

[Hobbit]

I'm a firm believer in giving people a second chance. In this instance, he hasn't done the time, he is out on parole(licence). He has not shown one shred of remorse, nor has he accepted the judgement of his peers and the courts who said his behaviour is unacceptable. He has, arrogantly, taken the line that he is innocent even though it was his statement and that of the his mate which admitted their actions but 'hid' behind a defence of consensual sex. The judgement passed on his behaviour is based on his responsibility to act in a certain way, which he clearly didn't.

Quite frankly, because he hasn't admitted guilt nor shown remorse I believe he should be still inside.

 

[Val]

Up until I heard Evans press release minutes ago Id agree with you Bri but given what has been released and what I'm told privately about the case I believe he deserves a second chance.

Up until the recent press release the hard facts were he is a convicted racist showing no remorse, that is unforgivable, the latest release covers the remorse and arrogance from Evans

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm a firm believer in giving people a second chance. In this instance, he hasn't done the time, he is out on parole(licence). He has not shown one shred of remorse, nor has he accepted the judgement of his peers and the courts who said his behaviour is unacceptable. He has, arrogantly, taken the line that he is innocent even though it was his statement and that of the his mate which admitted their actions but 'hid' behind a defence of consensual sex. The judgement passed on his behaviour is based on his responsibility to act in a certain way, which he clearly didn't.

Quite frankly, because he hasn't admitted guilt nor shown remorse I believe he should be still inside.

Completely agree. To be honest though, I think the extremely lenient sentences handed out to the few rapists that get convicted is the actual issue rather than whether some football club wants to employ him.

 

[garyinderry]

"I am grateful for the support of the PFA in helping me try to return to football and continue my career.

"Upon legal advice, I was told not to discuss the events in question. This silence has been misinterpreted as arrogance and I would like to state that this could not be further from the truth.

"I do remain limited at present by what I can say due to the ongoing referral to the Criminal Cases Review Commission and whilst I continue to maintain my innocence, I wish to make it clear that I wholeheartedly apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl has had on many people, not least the woman concerned.

"Finally, it has been claimed that those using social media in an abusive and vindictive way towards this woman are supporters of mine. I wish to make it clear that these people are not my supporters and I condemn their actions entirely and will continue to do so."



Why is it constantly reported that he hasn't apologised? He has apologised for the effects of that night. He clearly can't apologise for his actions as that is an admission of guilt in my book.

 

[jp5]

Quite frankly, because he hasn't admitted guilt nor shown remorse I believe he should be still inside.

Not saying that Evans is innocent, and to even be in his situation you'd have to be an almighty idiot, but what if he genuinely is innocent? Would you show remorse for a crime you didn't commit?

 

[Hobbit]

Not saying that Evans is innocent, and to even be in his situation you'd have to be an almighty idiot, but what if he genuinely is innocent? Would you show remorse for a crime you didn't commit?

He's apologised for his actions, which is an admission they occurred. Those actions, deemed by the court in upholding the law, make him guilty.

 

[Val]

He's apologised for his actions, which is an admission they occurred. Those actions, deemed by the court in upholding the law, make him guilty.

He hadn't apologised for his actions though, he can't because that's an admission of guilt and therefore would deem an appeal not needed.

He apologised for the effects that night had on people and the women, that legally is very different to him apologising for his actions.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I have just been reading on Sky News that the Ched Evans Oldham move has been scrapped, didnt read the details , but ive seen other comments re sponsors pulling out etc if clubs sign him ..

Now this thread is NOT about the guilt or non guilt of him or anyone else for that matter . its just his story got me thinking .

If you commit a crime and get caught and serve your time , when you serve your sentence should / shouldnt you be allowed to get on with your life , i know sponsors have the right to invest their money as they see fit but is it fair that someone can pay their dues (for want of better term) but still carry the consequences , is this not a 2nd punishment ?..


I can appreciate the thoughts will vary differently if you were the family of the Victim over the family of the accused / guilty but what about as a complete stranger / outsider

Now i know this can be an emotive subject and if any mod wants to just pull the thread just work away guys for the rest of us just respect others answers even if they differ from your own please ,


Thanks

You have to look at the context of the situation and I think it is very difficult to apply a hard and fast rule that someone can carry on in life with no further consequences if they have been convicted of a serious and very emotional crime. Especially when that person is performing a public role that rightly or wrongly has a big element of worship/support for want of a better word. Yes you could argue that he is getting punished twice, but many would argue that after being convicted of a crime like rape then that is the least someone deserves.

I have read very coherent arguments for both sides, indeed Mathew Syed, one of my favourite writers who I agree with just about everything he says, argued very persuasively that he should be allowed to play. But it is my belief is that whilst he is a convicted rapist he should not play, and this seems to be shared by a lot of supporters and sponsors of the clubs involved.

 

[Foxholer]

'A club director told BBC sports editor Dan Roan that a staff member was informed a named relative would be raped if the deal went ahead.'

An obscene way to get a message across!

Whoever made that threat should be punished to the full extent of the law!

 

[Rooter]

'A club director told BBC sports editor Dan Roan that a staff member was informed a named relative would be raped if the deal went ahead.'

An obscene way to get a message across!

Whoever made that threat should be punished to the full extent of the law!

And rather ironic that to state their disgust at a convicted rapist joining the club, they would rape someone if it happened? OK then...

 

[jp5]

He's apologised for his actions, which is an admission they occurred. Those actions, deemed by the court in upholding the law, make him guilty.

No he hasn't.

I'm genuinely not trying to defend the guy and couldn't care less what happens to him. But it does rile me when people attempt to construct arguments based on fallacies.

 

[FairwayDodger]

"I am grateful for the support of the PFA in helping me try to return to football and continue my career.

"Upon legal advice, I was told not to discuss the events in question. This silence has been misinterpreted as arrogance and I would like to state that this could not be further from the truth.

"I do remain limited at present by what I can say due to the ongoing referral to the Criminal Cases Review Commission and whilst I continue to maintain my innocence, I wish to make it clear that I wholeheartedly apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl has had on many people, not least the woman concerned.

"Finally, it has been claimed that those using social media in an abusive and vindictive way towards this woman are supporters of mine. I wish to make it clear that these people are not my supporters and I condemn their actions entirely and will continue to do so."



Why is it constantly reported that he hasn't apologised? He has apologised for the effects of that night. He clearly can't apologise for his actions as that is an admission of guilt in my book.

Well he's only just issued that statement after it's become apparent that no club will touch him unless he can improve his image. So while it slightly improves my opinion of him I'd also say that it's pretty cynical and not entirely sincere - his website, which continues the abuse and harassment of his victim and distorts the truth of the incident, remains online... So a step in the right direction but not enough.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Up until I heard Evans press release minutes ago Id agree with you Bri but given what has been released and what I'm told privately about the case I believe he deserves a second chance.

Up until the recent press release the hard facts were he is a convicted racist showing no remorse, that is unforgivable, the latest release covers the remorse and arrogance from Evans

A more cynical person may say that he has now realised that no football club will sign him unless he says something. So he has got his lawyers to draft a sufficiently semi-appoligistic statement to try and defuse the situation, with them long term aim being that some football club will now employ him. And how much he has actually had a change of heart or thinks differently about what he did is debatable to say the least.

 

[Ethan]

Well he's only just issued that statement after it's become apparent that no club will touch him unless he can improve his image. So while it slightly improves my opinion of him I'd also say that it's pretty cynical and not entirely sincere - his website, which continues the abuse and harassment of his victim and distorts the truth of the incident, remains online... So a step in the right direction but not enough.

Yep, it is the politician's 'I am sorry you were upset by ...' apology rather than 'I am sorry I did it'.

I am a bit conflicted by this one. On the one hand, he has served the sentence and been released on licence/parole, but it perfectly understandable that people are repulsed and he is rather toxic. Maybe once his licence conditions expire, he will go abroad and play there.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Well he's only just issued that statement after it's become apparent that no club will touch him unless he can improve his image. So while it slightly improves my opinion of him I'd also say that it's pretty cynical and not entirely sincere - his website, which continues the abuse and harassment of his victim and distorts the truth of the incident, remains online... So a step in the right direction but not enough.

Hey yoghurt knitter, stop copying my arguments.

 

[Beezerk]

No second chance for me, the reasons perfectly summed up by the large footed one.

 

[Rooter]

No second chance for me, the reasons perfectly summed up by the large footed one.

So is it just rape you get no second chance? What about Luke McCormick? Killed two kids while under the influence in a car "accident". Served his time in prison and now plays for Plymouth Argyle IIRC.

So are we judging second chances by the crime committed these days?

 

[bladeplayer]

No second chance for me, the reasons perfectly summed up by the large footed one.

For anything ? how would ya feel if it was someone belonging to u that made a mess up ?

Guys /Gals please dont let it into a Ched Evans only thread , Ta

 

[FairwayDodger]

For anything ? how would ya feel if it was someone belonging to u that made a mess up ?

Guys /Gals please dont let it into a Ched Evans only thread , Ta

I think the nature of the crime is relevant. Everyone has a different attitude to different crimes, influenced by their own experiences and morality.

But in terms of second chances, the attitude of the offender is vital. Admit you did wrong, show genuine remorse and contrition, do what you can to make amends.

Here's a thought.... EARN a second chance rather than demand it as a right.