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Scottish Prem 18/19

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HughJars said:
OK, I'll try to make this easier for you.

Fans of other clubs dont give a **** if the tims get an automatic spot or not*, in fact I think you'll find the more qualifying rounds they have to play the better.

What we want is competitive domestic football, I don't give a **** about "attracting players", what the hell is wrong with developing a Lewis Ferguson, Scott McKenna or Keiran Tierney? What difference does "attracting players" make?

What does happen is that if Celtic make group stages they get barrowloads of cash, the mud off the wheel of the barrow does not in any way make it a favourable outcome for the other clubs.

There is simply no benefit to the game here if Celtic were to progress.


*The argument about the Champions League being bloated with also-rans is another argument entirely, as indeed is this ridiculous doggies chance that Celtic and other teams get now, and indeed third place teams in the groups later. Makes a farcical set up even more farcical.
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The domestic league stopped being competitive a long time ago - it must be over 30 years now since some outside the two old firm clubs won the title and it’s going to be one of them again this season and the next etc etc - Celtic going out of the CL won’t change that but any reward the league got from celtic or indeed any Scottish club will get smaller each year and so when someone from outside Old Firm ,does maybe break the model the Scottish footprint in European football will be that small you will be playing qualifying rounds against the lowest rank nations each year

The CL is the regardless of what you think of still the Comp the players want to be in - it gives a player the maximum exposure - a league without a representative won’t look great for players and even is players are developed then they will move on quick enough
 
Liverpoolphil said:
The domestic league stopped being competitive a long time ago - it must be over 30 years now since some outside the two old firm clubs won the title and it’s going to be one of them again this season and the next etc etc - Celtic going out of the CL won’t change that but any reward the league got from celtic or indeed any Scottish club will get smaller each year and so when someone from outside Old Firm ,does maybe break the model the Scottish footprint in European football will be that small you will be playing qualifying rounds against the lowest rank nations each year

The CL is the regardless of what you think of still the Comp the players want to be in - it gives a player the maximum exposure - a league without a representative won’t look great for players and even is players are developed then they will move on quick enough
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It's actually better for the co-efficient for Celtic to get into the Europa League and potentially win/draw a few games than it is for them to get into the group stages of the Champions League and get humped six times.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
The domestic league stopped being competitive a long time ago - it must be over 30 years now since some outside the two old firm clubs won the title and it’s going to be one of them again this season and the next etc etc - Celtic going out of the CL won’t change that but any reward the league got from celtic or indeed any Scottish club will get smaller each year and so when someone from outside Old Firm ,does maybe break the model the Scottish footprint in European football will be that small you will be playing qualifying rounds against the lowest rank nations each year

The CL is the regardless of what you think of still the Comp the players want to be in - it gives a player the maximum exposure - a league without a representative won’t look great for players and even is players are developed then they will move on quick enough
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And yet you still don't get it. "Lower Ranked Nations" What arrogant, self-perpetuating crap. It's the "Champions League*" *some champions may be more equal than others, some may not even be champions, some may get a second chance in the UEFA cup cos, well they're from "a higher ranked nation". Absolute scandal.

European football is finished, if you're not English, Italian, Spanish, German or French you're not wanted, and everything is stacked so that you get no more than scrpas from the table. There won't be another Aberdeen or Malmo, it's impossible, and is now at the stage of being pointless. You won't find me crying about not getting into Europe, all I see is a better pre-season than having friendlies against Brechin or Hull, and lets get knocked out in time for the real season starting.

This piece quoted by Michael Stewart today sums up what I've been saying for ten years: https://www.givemesport.com/1372426...tic-and-arsenal?amp&__twitter_impression=true
 
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HughJars said:
And yet you still don't get it. "Lower Ranked Nations" What arrogant, self-perpetuating crap. It's the "Champions League*" *some champions may be more equal than others, some may not even be champions, some may get a second chance in the UEFA cup cos, well they're from "a higher ranked nation". Absolute scandal.

European football is finished, if you're not English, Italian, Spanish, German or French you're not wanted, and everything is stacked so that you get no more than scrpas from the table. There won't be another Aberdeen or Malmo, it's impossible, and is now at the stage of being pointless. You won't find me crying about not getting into Europe, all I see is a better pre-season than having friendlies against Brechin or Hull, and lets get knocked out in time for the real season starting.

This piece quoted by Michael Stewart today sums up what I've been saying for ten years: https://www.givemesport.com/1372426...tic-and-arsenal?amp&__twitter_impression=true
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It’s not arrogant to say that Scotland is Lower Ranked Nation in regards co efficients for European tournaments - it’s Factual , go and look at them if you so wish

As for the Champions League - it changed a long time ago now to stop the threat of a European League but that isn’t the only reason why things change - player movement is a totally different animal than back in the 70/80’s - players move a lot easily now especially within European Clubs so whilst before players stayed within their Home Countries they now move - so teams like Malmo or Steau etc will lose their top players to go to the bigger clubs around Europe but it is what it is and that’s the way the sport goes now - it changes and no doubt in 20 years it will have changed more

But even through all those years the Scottish Prem is still dominanted by the same two clubs - so maybe the first thing to look at is closer to home and sort the Scottish Prem out first
 
Liverpoolphil said:
But even through all those years the Scottish Prem is still dominanted by the same two clubs - so maybe the first thing to look at is closer to home and sort the Scottish Prem out first
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That's exactly the same problem though, as evidenced by one of the replies on this thread. Whereas in the past Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had more chance of holding on to better players as the disparity in wages wasn't particularly big, Celtic especially (and probably sustainably...) can afford to double a player's wages and not even play him. It's a tad hypocritical for Celtic fans to be complaining about the imbalance in the "Champions" League but being perfectly happy with the situation in Scotland as a whole.

The sooner the big clubs get their glorious European league up and running the better. Everyone else can then go back to the grass roots that made the game popular in the first place and start all over again.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
It’s not arrogant to say that Scotland is Lower Ranked Nation in regards co efficients for European tournaments - it’s Factual , go and look at them if you so wish

As for the Champions League - it changed a long time ago now to stop the threat of a European League but that isn’t the only reason why things change - player movement is a totally different animal than back in the 70/80’s - players move a lot easily now especially within European Clubs so whilst before players stayed within their Home Countries they now move - so teams like Malmo or Steau etc will lose their top players to go to the bigger clubs around Europe but it is what it is and that’s the way the sport goes now - it changes and no doubt in 20 years it will have changed more

But even through all those years the Scottish Prem is still dominanted by the same two clubs - so maybe the first thing to look at is closer to home and sort the Scottish Prem out first
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Totally agree. The only way to do it is to ensure parity amongst the clubs. That's why we want Celtic (and when Rangers were there) out of the Champions League as quickly as possible.

For them to be able to spunk £2m (which is probably more than the entire transfer budget for the rest of the premier league) is obscene. It shows they get too much and it isn't filtering down. To be honest it's a boot in the nuts for the rest of us.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
But even through all those years the Scottish Prem is still dominanted by the same two clubs - so maybe the first thing to look at is closer to home and sort the Scottish Prem out first
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Holy **** man, you pinpoint the symptoms at the end, and not the disease that has caused it. It's the top down nonsense that has caused this issue at the bottom
 
HowlingGale said:
Totally agree. The only way to do it is to ensure parity amongst the clubs. That's why we want Celtic (and when Rangers were there) out of the Champions League as quickly as possible.

For them to be able to spunk £2m (which is probably more than the entire transfer budget for the rest of the premier league) is obscene. It shows they get too much and it isn't filtering down. To be honest it's a boot in the nuts for the rest of us.
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Exactly this
 
azazel said:
Which kinda proves why the rest of the country should be pleased to see you knocked out :thup:
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This will be the rest of the country who would support the national side who in turn will have a reduced co-efficient in turn meaning harder routes of qualification to any international competition. No wonder we haven't qualified for anything in decades.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
But even through all those years the Scottish Prem is still dominanted by the same two clubs - so maybe the first thing to look at is closer to home and sort the Scottish Prem out first
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Lets not forget how few clubs there is dominating the Premiership. Take the Leicester and Blackburn 1 offs aside for 1 minutes and you have 4 clubs dominate a league double the size of the Scottish Premiership, it's no more competitive at the top end than the Scottish leagues is (or should I say was before the death of Rangers). Likewise Spain, Italy, Germany, France. Scotland is a small country with small viewing figuers, UEFA would rather we werent in the CL.
 
Val said:
Lets not forget how few clubs there is dominating the Premiership. Take the Leicester and Blackburn 1 offs aside for 1 minutes and you have 4 clubs dominate a league double the size of the Scottish Premiership, it's no more competitive at the top end than the Scottish leagues is (or should I say was before the death of Rangers). Likewise Spain, Italy, Germany, France. Scotland is a small country with small viewing figuers, UEFA would rather we werent in the CL.
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The same 6 have shared the top 6 places of EPL for the last 2 years so I'd strongly suggest it's actually 6 clubs!

And the strength of EPL is that, while those 6 dominate, they still have to be VERY wary of (certainly most of) the rest of the teams in the league. There are no 'easy' games in the EPL! That's quite different to every other European league where 2-4 dominate and the rest are a long way behind!
 
Val said:
This will be the rest of the country who would support the national side who in turn will have a reduced co-efficient in turn meaning harder routes of qualification to any international competition. No wonder we haven't qualified for anything in decades.
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THIS IS UTTER BOLLOCKS :rofl:
 
casuk said:
Celtic tried to but hibs wanted 4m after saying the price was less than that Celtic offered 2.7m that was knocked back but they accepted villas 2.7m Petrie just wasn't selling him to celtic, now hibs want to sign Scott Allan from Celtic for 250k, absolute cheek,
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Wrong. Celtic expected John McGinn, Celtic supporter and grandson of former chairman just to spit the dummy and go in a huff till he forced his move to Celtic. Celtic only matched Villa after Villa had the bid accepted, tried to unsettle the player and grab him cheaper.
 
HughJars said:
Fallacy. What isn't good for Scottish football is Celtic getting to group stages of CL and raking in a 9 figure sum and further widening the gap to the rest. Now if they can get humped out of the doggies chance play off as well, all the better.
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The rest of the Scottish clubs don't get a share of the £900k that is all that the rest miss out on.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Spot on- a League/country not having a team in the CL is not a good advertisement for the league and won’t help attract players and also help push towards getting an automatic spot in the group stage
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Celtic are already at that level. They have a standard of player that will win the SPL. They usually have the players to at least make the group stages of the Champions League, this year it back fired. Sadly the level of player Celtic now need to progress is quite frankly not interested in playing in a diddy league like the SPL.
 
HughJars said:
So is this. The highest per capita following in Europe.
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Which means very little. I'll make it easier for you, Scotland has a population of 5.69m people, England has 31m males. Which country is likely to have more people watching football either at a ground or on the telly? IE, which country will have more people looking at UEFA's sponsors?
 
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