Scotland Debate

[Hobbit]

and Scotland shouldn't vote on whether we're better off or not in or out of the union,Scotland should vote on whether it wants to be an independent country taking responsibility for itself, both nationally and internationally,whether we're prepared to make choices and stand by them and be accountable to the electorate and our fellow countries.

Just occasionally you shock me by being sensible... hate to say it but that's 3 times I've agreed with you in this thread. Keep up the good work dear boy!

 

[Old Skier]

you've cannae base your impression on the entire Yes campaign on my ramblings on a golf internet forum,surely?!

and Scotland shouldn't vote on whether we're better off or not in or out of the union,Scotland should vote on whether it wants to be an independent country taking responsibility for itself, both nationally and internationally,whether we're prepared to make choices and stand by them and be accountable to the electorate and our fellow countries.

Sorry A2D didn't mean to give the impression that I meant you personally.

Independence country comment. That's the bit I still fail to understand. You stated you want to be an independent country taking your own responsibilities and then get upset when the nut jobs in Westminster say fine but you'll have to sort your own currency and all sorts of people get upset when someone suggests you may not be able to just walk into the EU.

IMHO that sounds like you want to be independent as long as you can have the safety net of some kind of Union but having the right to not stand by the or any unions decision.

got it

 

[Old Skier]

Sorry, need to stop using you, change to the Yes campaign

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You stated you want to be an independent country taking your own responsibilities and then get upset when the nut jobs in Westminster say fine but you'll have to sort your own currency and all sorts of people get upset when someone suggests you may not be able to just walk into the EU.

This is important, it's essential that folk know that the white paper is not the template for iScotland, it's the proposed route The SNP would theoretically take iScotland down.Now I can argue all day the merits in what The SNP want as I can see the grains of promise held within, but if I had my way we'd have the following in iScotland

No currency union
No EU membership
No NATO membership

A new currency,EFTA membership and no NATO would do me fine and I know I'm not alone...The YES CAMPAIGN IS NOT THE SNP

 

[patricks148]

I think many in Scotland are unhappy with never getting a Gov they vote for and the Damage Maggie did lingers on, im not sure there would be quite as much interest in Ind if there was still a Lab gov, but maybe there would!
where i live is quite Liberal, in fact the ginger rodents seat is here, but he won't be getting back in regardless.

I think all the stuff coming from the gov is just fueling the fire after all without Scotlands voters the Con party will be in power for ever more.

 

[Old Skier]

I think all the stuff coming from the gov is just fueling the fire after all without Scotlands voters the Con party will be in power for ever more.

And it can be said, without Scottish votes Labour would never get in. That fact can only be changed by the electorate, it's not the fault of the respective parties.

Perhaps if we all targeted an Independent in the area to make sure they all lose their deposit (it's just a wish) perhaps they will all get the message.

For people to still be blaming Thatcher 20'yrs down the road shows what the problem is as a good number of voters weren't even alive during her time.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I think many in Scotland are unhappy with never getting a Gov they vote for and the Damage Maggie did lingers on, im not sure there would be quite as much interest in Ind if there was still a Lab gov, but maybe there would!
where i live is quite Liberal, in fact the ginger rodents seat is here, but he won't be getting back in regardless.

I think all the stuff coming from the gov is just fueling the fire after all without Scotlands voters the Con party will be in power for ever more.

And it can be said, without Scottish votes Labour would never get in. That fact can only be changed by the electorate, it's not the fault of the respective parties.

Perhaps if we all targeted an Independent in the area to make sure they all lose their deposit (it's just a wish) perhaps they will all get the message.

For people to still be blaming Thatcher 20'yrs down the road shows what the problem is as a good number of voters weren't even alive during her time.

I don't actually think, in the last 50 years, it makes any difference which way Scotland votes in GE, whether Labour or Conservative.And by that I mean the winning party would still have won without Scotland.GE's are decided in SE England normally, their voting pattern generally reflects the winning party.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

So there's been accusations of cybernatery on here and other places, some of it accurate,some of it nonsense.

But is there an opposite?Does BT use the internet to spread lies?Well, yes they do, and not only that, MP's use the internet to spread lies.I'm no fan of the wingsoverscotland chavvie, I think he's part of the problem surrounding this whole process, but credit where it's due, this is decent...

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-smear-wars/

And in the spirit of fairness,here's a reply from the jambo supporting unionist Labour MP...read the wings link before this one for easier understanding

http://ianmurraymp.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/lets-have-a-reasoned-debate-based-on-fact/

He's taken it tight on twitter,so fair play for him replying.

 

[Old Skier]

Confused.com. Is the MP suggesting that the blogger actual lives in Bath, if so why is he saying he will vote Yes.

 

[Foxholer]

Confused.com. Is the MP suggesting that the blogger actual lives in Bath, if so why is he saying he will vote Yes.

He is! And yes he does!

Check this out. There's even a pic of him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-army-online-poison-shames-Nationalists.html

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He is! And yes he does!

Check this out. There's even a pic of him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-army-online-poison-shames-Nationalists.html

Oops !

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Confused.com. Is the MP suggesting that the blogger actual lives in Bath, if so why is he saying he will vote Yes.

Yup.He's the lunatic fringe but highly effective.Think he raised over £100K last month for his cause.

He's Nicky Clarke/John Barrowman/Eddie Izzard etc on steroids.

 

[Old Skier]

Yup.He's the lunatic fringe but highly effective.

Its a shame that along with lowering the voting age and his kind of support this is what iscot is coming down to.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Its a shame that along with lowering the voting age and his kind of support this is what iscot is coming down to.

I have no problems with the 16 year olds being allowed to vote, for many voters it is their children's future that is highest on the agenda.
I have also never heard a word of protest about allowing 16 year olds the vote.
Not really sure what you are implying by saying that they are not capable of making a decision.

 

[Old Skier]

Not really sure what you are implying by saying that they are not capable of making a decision.

IMHO that some, not all teenagers might make a decision for the wrong reason but if that is a way to get more people voting in the end that will be a good thing.

 

[Imurg]

Is anyone in Scotland fearful of a very close vote..?
And I mean close - 50.5 - 49.5 say...
Although a majority, it could be said that if the wind was blowing the other direction the vote could have gone the other way.
Could this lead to conflict between the 2 sides..?
Wouldn't it be more prudent to require a larger majority than just a majority to force through what is, after all, monumental change.?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I don't think 'the establishment' thought for one minute it would be close so casually agreed the 50% figure with Salmond.

 

[Foxholer]

Is anyone in Scotland fearful of a very close vote..?
And I mean close - 50.5 - 49.5 say...
Although a majority, it could be said that if the wind was blowing the other direction the vote could have gone the other way.
Could this lead to conflict between the 2 sides..?
Wouldn't it be more prudent to require a larger majority than just a majority to force through what is, after all, monumental change.?

How would it be democratic (or fair) that a majority wish for one thing to happen, but it can't happen because a minority don't want it to!

 

[Old Skier]

How would it be democratic (or fair) that a majority wish for one thing to happen, but it can't happen because a minority don't want it to!

Agree but Imurg has just bought the Elephant into the room.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Is anyone in Scotland fearful of a very close vote..?
And I mean close - 50.5 - 49.5 say...
Although a majority, it could be said that if the wind was blowing the other direction the vote could have gone the other way.
Could this lead to conflict between the 2 sides..?
Wouldn't it be more prudent to require a larger majority than just a majority to force through what is, after all, monumental change.?

I'm sure you're aware of the outcome of the last referendum?The vote cast were in favour of independence, so in theory we should be indy since the late 70s.But some crafty Labour politician managed to attach a rule meaning 40%+ of the electorate had to vote to make it valid.Fair enough, I suppose, but it's the only time ever in the history of British voting such a rule has been used.No such worries this time, I predict 75%+ of the electorate will vote.

And it will be close, even coming down to a couple 100 votes.But majority rules and either side will have to suck it up.