Scotland Debate

[stevie_r]

Does that mean that the headquarters of all of the agencies you mention are based and operate only in England/Wales

A significant number, bear in mind that they were just examples plucked at random from the air, there are literally hundreds of agencies that will have to be set up. In the highly unlikely event of a yes vote there will clearly be a significant amount of give and take. Scotland would not be in a position to be anything like independent for quite a while; not that it wants to be fully independent anyway . Therefore, to believe that Scotland holds the one ace (Coulport) is naivety on a staggering scale.

With regard to the amount of agencies Scotland would have to create in order to function, I have for some time thought that the country would struggle to find enough bodies to fill the jobs required.

 

[SocketRocket]

How about report you to the UN,get Hans blix and his mates in to dismantle items of sovereign territory.

And I"m deffo off oot now!

Sounds like you have just come back

What! After they have finished in the Crimea! I don't think so and neither do you.

 

[Old Skier]

Politicians need votes. If any politician wants in, in the unlikely event of a yes vote giving you an iscot, the electorate south of the wall I suspect will not look to kindly on any back peddling or giving in to the SNP. I'm sure there will be a plan B plucked out of the air regarding the nuclear problem.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

With regard to the amount of agencies Scotland would have to create in order to function, I have for some time thought that the country would struggle to find enough bodies to fill the jobs required.

Goodness me do you really think that we have no tax offices, customs etc in Scotland.

 

[Crow]

Here’s something interesting that my daughter told me the other day, which I assume is true but please tell me if not?

University fees are free to Scottish students, and being a member of the EU they have to make them free to other European countries, including Ireland.

Students from Wales, Northern Ireland and England, however, have to pay £9,000 a year. They make up around 20 to 25% of students in Scotland so that’s a big chunk of money coming in to support the free places.

If Scotland becomes independent and stays in the EU then it is almost certain that students from Wales, Northern Ireland and England will challenge this situation and claim free places as well, and if they get them then the number of applicants is likely to rise dramatically, putting a severe financial strain on the universities.

 

[stevie_r]

Goodness me do you really think that we have no tax offices, customs etc in Scotland.

Watch my hypothetical lips, hundreds of government agencies required to run a country, SIS, Security Services, An Army, Navy, Air force, you will not fill the jobs required.

You limp along currently with 400,000 English expats helping you out.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Here’s something interesting that my daughter told me the other day, which I assume is true but please tell me if not?

University fees are free to Scottish students, and being a member of the EU they have to make them free to other European countries, including Ireland.

Students from Wales, Northern Ireland and England, however, have to pay £9,000 a year. They make up around 20 to 25% of students in Scotland so that’s a big chunk of money coming in to support the free places.

If Scotland becomes independent and stays in the EU then it is almost certain that students from Wales, Northern Ireland and England will challenge this situation and claim free places as well, and if they get them then the number of applicants is likely to rise dramatically, putting a severe financial strain on the universities.

You forgot to mention how much Scottish students pay for attending English Uni's.

We have different priorities, even allowing for free places the Universities in Scotland are very popular and operate at a healthy profit.

 

[Foxholer]

Goodness me do you really think that we have no tax offices, customs etc in Scotland.

Front line/1st level, there may be. And for the likes of Police and a few others there will be little additional infrastructure required. But for things like Tax, Welfare etc, the additional infrastructure - IT systems, Governance Bodies etc - will actually be immense.

Think of them like High Street branches of Banks. The customer facing part of them is by no means the major element.

IT systems on their own could delay any true independence. No sizeable Government IT project seems to take less than about 2 years just for the bidding process, let alone the actual development. And the 'failure' and overspend rate of developments is seriously high. The Scottish Parliament doesn't have a great track record on 'new build' overspending! I'm sure the likes of Accenture and Capita would love to see another customer for their systems! Hundreds of millions to be made with little real development needed!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Watch my hypothetical lips, hundreds of government agencies required to run a country, SIS, Security Services, An Army, Navy, Air force, you will not fill the jobs required.

You limp along currently with 400,000 English expats helping you out.

Well thank you very much, I think you will find that most of the English expats have retired to Scotland for a better way of life.

You also seem to forget that the scale of 'jobs to fill' is about a tenth of that required by England.
With all the job losses you predict from the 'system' being based in England I am sure that we will have no problems filling them.

 

[NWJocko]

You forgot to mention how much Scottish students pay for attending English Uni's.

We have different priorities, even allowing for free places the Universities in Scotland are very popular and operate at a healthy profit.

Not sure how this is relevant to the point(s) made..?

If Scottish students want to come to an English university they will do so, regardless of independence, and to be honest has no bearing on the point made.

The issue is with the free places becoming more widely available for non Scottish residents, making the universities significantly less profitable....

 

[stevie_r]

Well thank you very much, I think you will find that most of the English expats have retired to Scotland for a better way of life.

You are wrong, maybe in crusty village where you live, but across the board no.
If you can drag the long term unemployed out of the pubs then you might have a chance of filling job slots, good luck. :thup:

 

[Crow]

You forgot to mention how much Scottish students pay for attending English Uni's.

We have different priorities, even allowing for free places the Universities in Scotland are very popular and operate at a healthy profit.

I didn't mention Scottish students paying to go to English universities (and I'm assuming Welsh and Northern Irish universities?) as it's got nothing to do with my question, and that situation is unlikely to change whichever way the vote goes.

You say they operate at a healthy profit, do you have figures?
I'm not looking for an argument, it was just something that I'd not heard of before and found thought provoking.

I'm told that there are roughly 25,000 students in Scotland, taking fees for paying students at £9,000 each and 20% of students being from Wales, Northern Ireland and England, that's £45,000,000 per year.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You are wrong, maybe in crusty village where you live, but across the board no.
If you can drag the long term unemployed out of the pubs then you might have a chance of filling job slots, good luck. :thup:

If I am wrong perhaps you can provide some figures to prove your point.
400,000 represents about 25% of the Scottish workforce. Or in even more simple terms one in four people working in Scotland is English.

 

[stevie_r]

If I am wrong perhaps you can provide some figures to prove your point.
400,000 represents about 25% of the Scottish workforce. Or in even more simple terms one in four people working in Scotland is English.

The figures on the number of English people living in Scotland is readily available online from the last census. Your guesstimate of Scotlands' workforce being 1.6 million is way out, it's actually around 2.6 million, again the figures are all available online.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well thank you very much, I think you will find that most of the English expats have retired to Scotland for a better way of life.

You also seem to forget that the scale of 'jobs to fill' is about a tenth of that required by England.
With all the job losses you predict from the 'system' being based in England I am sure that we will have no problems filling them.

..and you might find some Scottish ex-pats heading back to Scotland to work on setting up the systems and agencies etc.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The figures on the number of English people living in Scotland is readily available online from the last census. Your guesstimate of Scotlands' workforce being 1.6 million is way out, it's actually around 2.6 million, again the figures are all available online.

That will probably be 1.6 million full time and 1 million on 4 hour contracts!.
Sorry got my figures muddled I thought the workforce was around the 2 million mark FT
Still recon 400,000 English workers out of 2.6 million is a very high estimate. One in 6.5.
Don't see that anywhere around me.

I see the Scottish Secretary has commented that BT could lose. He seems a specially undynamic sort of individual.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I note that Carmichael is getting twitchy about the referendum -with the BT/NO campaign not doing enough (anything?) to sell the UK to the Scottish electorate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inet-ministers-fears-Scotland-referendum.html

At somer point BT is going to have to start being positive about a NO vote and start extolling the benefits - rather than as they currently are doing - rubbishing a YES. Looking forward to hearing the benefits - and then hearing BT defending their stated benefits as the YES campaign will be at them. And BT will have to start being clear about a future Scotland in the UK post a NO. Just saying they don't have to seems to be losing credibility.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You seem to think that an independent Scotland holds all the cards because of this issue.

Or UK says we'll move them as soon as we are able, don't like it? tough.

Going back to this point.I don't think Scotland holds all the cards on this point, but it's pretty important, of equal standing as the £, as I've previously suggested.

So to back to the £, no currency union, no £ in Scotland, no share of debt, no Scottish contribution to the balance of payments, a reduction in value of sterling and the surrounding issues.All because Westminster said no to a currency union.And you believe Westminster will cut off its nose?

So, because Westminster refused a CU, rUK has no Coulport or Faslane, a reduction in the value of its currency a short fall in the balance of repayments, a higher debt=population ratio and Scotland has to either use a floating currency,the euro or a new currency.And you think that's realistic?

Sounds like you have just come back

What! After they have finished in the Crimea! I don't think so and neither do you.

So to these highlighted points, your both suggesting that if/when Scotland demands that nuclear weapons are removed from our country, rUK will say no, we'll continue to use Faslane until we're good and ready to move them and there's nothing you can do about it?
I know you both made these posts on a Saturday night, and wine and beer can be the undoing of any man, so I'll ask, neither of you were serious,were you?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Going back to this point.I don't think Scotland holds all the cards on this point, but it's pretty important, of equal standing as the £, as I've previously suggested.

So to back to the £, no currency union, no £ in Scotland, no share of debt, no Scottish contribution to the balance of payments, a reduction in value of sterling and the surrounding issues.All because Westminster said no to a currency union.And you believe Westminster will cut off its nose?

So, because Westminster refused a CU, rUK has no Coulport or Faslane, a reduction in the value of its currency a short fall in the balance of repayments, a higher debt=population ratio and Scotland has to either use a floating currency,the euro or a new currency.And you think that's realistic?




So to these highlighted points, your both suggesting that if/when Scotland demands that nuclear weapons are removed from our country, rUK will say no, we'll continue to use Faslane until we're good and ready to move them and there's nothing you can do about it?
I know you both made these posts on a Saturday night, and wine and beer can be the undoing of any man, so I'll ask, neither of you were serious,were you?

What would Scotland be able to do if the UK did say no - they are staying there until we are ready to move them ?

 

[Dodger]

I feel the Yes campaign is gaining momentum up here. Things like this helping no end -