Scotland Debate

[Deleted member 15344]

So you want people to give you answers and when they do you just ignore them ( mainly because they dont fit in with any ideas that you may have ) :thup:

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Since when has anyone trusted a Tory politician to tell the truth.
A Yes vote for Scotland and they will be spinning like tops.

About as often as one should trust any politician Lib Dem, Labour & SNP included. After all the statement on currency union was supported by Danny Alexander and Ed Balls.

Oh! and forget Vince Cable he is regarded down here as a political opportunist of the worst kind.

 

[stevie_r]

So you want people to give you answers and when they do you just ignore them ( mainly because they dont fit in with any ideas that you may have ) :thup:

And that in a nutshell has been the Yes strategy.

 

[Old Skier]

Since when has anyone trusted a Tory politician to tell the truth.
A Yes vote for Scotland and they will be spinning like tops.

So you trust the others then, the SNP sound like the right ones for you then.

Perhaps, just perhaps, you cannot have currency union with RUK and are not accepted into the EU. What is the nationalists plan B.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Perhaps there is some concern on how those south of the wall might perceive the 'deal' as being a double win for those north of the wall...

True, but I can't see any other solution to the two major issues.Unless rUK wants to abandon nuclear weapons,the seat on the security council and all the added wee bits, they'll have to offer some sort of compromise to Scotland to allow the ongoing use of Coulport.

Lets go thru the process.

Scotland votes Yes
We ask to negotiate a currency union
Westminster say under no conditions will there be a currency union
Scotland adopt Euro
Westminster enquire as to the possibility of coulport continuing operating
Scotland say no, remove your nuclear weapons within the next month
Westminster have no alternative site to store weapons and marry them to missiles
Westminster have no alternative but to announce they are dismantling their nukes

Now, can anyone show me the winner, on either side of the border, in that scenario?

Is it the N or the O that you don't understand in there will be no currency union.

So you want people to give you answers and when they do you just ignore them ( mainly because they dont fit in with any ideas that you may have ) :thup:

About as often as one should trust any politician Lib Dem, Labour & SNP included. After all the statement on currency union was supported by Danny Alexander and Ed Balls.

Oh! and forget Vince Cable he is regarded down here as a political opportunist of the worst kind.

So you don't believe politicians, but believe them when they tell you there will be no currency union?Thats quite selective, is it not?

 

[stevie_r]

True, but I can't see any other solution to the two major issues.Unless rUK wants to abandon nuclear weapons,the seat on the security council and all the added wee bits, they'll have to offer some sort of compromise to Scotland to allow the ongoing use of Coulport.

Lets go thru the process.

Scotland votes Yes
We ask to negotiate a currency union
Westminster say under no conditions will there be a currency union
Scotland adopt Euro
Westminster enquire as to the possibility of coulport continuing operating
Scotland say no, remove your nuclear weapons within the next month
Westminster have no alternative site to store weapons and marry them to missiles
Westminster have no alternative but to announce they are dismantling their nukes

Now, can anyone show me the winner, on either side of the border, in that scenario?








So you don't believe politicians, but believe them when they tell you there will be no currency union?Thats quite selective, is it not?

So what makes you so absolutely certain that the UK won't be able to construct a new 'Coulport' somewhere down south?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

So what makes you so absolutely certain that the UK won't be able to construct a new 'Coulport' somewhere down south?

They could, but it'll take 10 years or more, according to those who know.But you need to find a suitable place first,which according to the info I've read, is nearly impossible...all the sites suggested are too near areas of mass population ( that rule doesn't apply to the clyde, apparently) too near oil refineries or not deep enough water.Then you have to overcome mass local opposition, MP's refusing to allow it to built on their patch, planning etc.Seriously, from what I've read, it's the single most vital essential reason why Westminster are desperate for a No vote.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmscotaf/676/67607.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...force-Britain-to-abandon-nuclear-weapons.html

 

[stevie_r]

They could, but it'll take 10 years or more, according to those who know.But you need to find a suitable place first,which according to the info I've read, is nearly impossible...all the sites suggested are too near areas of mass population ( that rule doesn't apply to the clyde, apparently) too near oil refineries or not deep enough water.Then you have to overcome mass local opposition, MP's refusing to allow it to built on their patch, planning etc.Seriously, from what I've read, it's the single most vital essential reason why Westminster are desperate for a No vote.

Do you honestly believe that suitable sites are not already shortlisted? really?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Do you honestly believe that suitable sites are not already shortlisted? really?

Sites have been shortlisted, but looking at the available documentation from committees, none of them are viable.

Deep water
away from population centres
easily gained planning
limited local opposition

The country has changed since the govt just 'did' coulport, very limited space south of the border

can you suggest two viable locations, just for the sake of whataboutery?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

To assist, here's a list of deep water ports in GB-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Panamax_ports#Great_Britain

Any of them viable?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So you don't believe politicians, but believe them when they tell you there will be no currency union?Thats quite selective, is it not?

[/QUOTE]

I think if you read the posts you will see that it was DfT who (selectively) did not believe politicians.It seems that, to him,Tories alone are not to be believed.

Personally I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong

 

[stevie_r]

Sites have been shortlisted, but looking at the available documentation from committees, none of them are viable.

Deep water
away from population centres
easily gained planning
limited local opposition

The country has changed since the govt just 'did' coulport, very limited space south of the border

can you suggest two viable locations, just for the sake of whataboutery?

If I could be bothered enough to study a map then yes. What we are talking about here is the UKs nuclear deterrent not a new Tescos, it will go where it needs to go and the local populace will unfortunately have to suck it up.

You seem to think that an independent Scotland holds all the cards because of this issue. Here's a scenario, fat Eck says he wants the nuclear weapons gone by a a particular date with a ridiculously short time frame, HMG says ok but by that date ensure you have the following agencies set up and working because we won't be doing it for you:

HMRC, CSA, DVLA, Immigration, Benefits agencies, Defence, etc etc etc a huge list. Scotland, unable to manage this within that time frame collapses before Independence has had a chance.

Or UK says we'll move them as soon as we are able, don't like it? tough.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

A bit of reality suddenly fills the void.
Salmond did say that it would take a protracted period of negotiation if there was a yes vote.
The rUK is committed to assist Scotland during this period.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Since when has anyone trusted a Tory politician to tell the truth.
A Yes vote for Scotland and they will be spinning like tops.

About as often as one should trust any politician Lib Dem, Labour & SNP included. After all the statement on currency union was supported by Danny Alexander and Ed Balls.

Oh! and forget Vince Cable he is regarded down here as a political opportunist of the worst kind.

I think if you read the posts you will see that it was DfT who (selectively) did not believe politicians.It seems that, to him,Tories alone are not to be believed.

Personally I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong

Er,no, you agreed with him in not trusting politicians, but whatevs.

 

[SocketRocket]

True, but I can't see any other solution to the two major issues.Unless rUK wants to abandon nuclear weapons,the seat on the security council and all the added wee bits, they'll have to offer some sort of compromise to Scotland to allow the ongoing use of Coulport.

Lets go thru the process.

Scotland votes Yes
We ask to negotiate a currency union
Westminster say under no conditions will there be a currency union
Scotland adopt Euro
Westminster enquire as to the possibility of coulport continuing operating
Scotland say no, remove your nuclear weapons within the next month
Westminster say we are keeping our nuclear weapons where they are for the next ten years. What are you going to do about it?

Now, can anyone show me the winner, on either side of the border, in that scenario?








So you don't believe politicians, but believe them when they tell you there will be no currency union?Thats quite selective, is it not?

Fixed that for you!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If I could be bothered enough to study a map then yes. What we are talking about here is the UKs nuclear deterrent not a new Tescos, it will go where it needs to go and the local populace will unfortunately have to suck it up.

You seem to think that an independent Scotland holds all the cards because of this issue. Here's a scenario, fat Eck says he wants the nuclear weapons gone by a a particular date with a ridiculously short time frame, HMG says ok but by that date ensure you have the following agencies set up and working because we won't be doing it for you:

HMRC, CSA, DVLA, Immigration, Benefits agencies, Defence, etc etc etc a huge list. Scotland, unable to manage this within that time frame collapses before Independence has had a chance.

Or UK says we'll move them as soon as we are able, don't like it? tough.

Does that mean that the headquarters of all of the agencies you mention are based and operate only in England/Wales

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Er,no, you agreed with him in not trusting politicians, but whatevs.

Clearly the forum is not the place for subtlety or nuance.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

If I could be bothered enough to study a map then yes. What we are talking about here is the UKs nuclear deterrent not a new Tescos, it will go where it needs to go and the local populace will unfortunately have to suck it up.

You seem to think that an independent Scotland holds all the cards because of this issue. Here's a scenario, fat Eck says he wants the nuclear weapons gone by a a particular date with a ridiculously short time frame, HMG says ok but by that date ensure you have the following agencies set up and working because we won't be doing it for you:

HMRC, CSA, DVLA, Immigration, Benefits agencies, Defence, etc etc etc a huge list. Scotland, unable to manage this within that time frame collapses before Independence has had a chance.

Or UK says we'll move them as soon as we are able, don't like it? tough.

No I don't and I've aid as much tonight on this very thread.Currency and Coulport are equally vital, with both sides having an equally strong hand...they both have something the other needs.

I've provided links to various sources backing up my point of view, and I've deliberately used unionists sources to avoid accusations of talking bollocks, but if you decide not to use them,fine, but you contribute nothing but unsubstantiated bollocks,especially your last sentence.

And with that, I'm off to the pub, will check in tomorrow after my team have lost to Hearts.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Fixed that for you!

How about report you to the UN,get Hans blix and his mates in to dismantle items of sovereign territory.

And I"m deffo off oot now!