Scotland Debate

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've asked before but I'll keep trying...... (need that head against the wall smiley again).

On what basis do you say "it makes no sense for rUK to go down any other route"?! Pretty sure I'd like my own government and Central Bank to be looking after my own country's interests and giving that 100% rather than considering any other countries issues. It appears "independent" Scots don't though and that confuses me.

Re the Project Fear, it is up to the Pro Independence campaign to counter that with more solid information on what will happen, not what it wants to happen which is pretty much what they have put out there so far.

Surely it's up to them to discuss/negotiate with the BoE and Westminster on what would be best for them?

Because there is too much joint interest between Scotland and rUK - together or separate.

And the YES campaign can't counter the non-position currently held by rUK on a 'sterling zone'.

Besides - how could the YES campaign counter a position that was No sterling zone. But the rUK could say it won't - but they are not saying that - why not? Because that would be that - Scotland would just have to do something else.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure I follow you.......

Following the latest downturn the US and UK are recovering by using all fo the tools available to them to enable recovery through QE, access to Credit and Interest Rates.

What would an Independent Scotland do if (it may never happen) they find themselves in Ireland's position from about 6 years back?

They (supported by the rUK) would either not let it happen or they would sort it out.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry, but I'm not gonna engage with you on this.Get over the stereotypes and be sensible and I'll reply.



so we're talking about the value of the currency and the interest rate set by the central bank?Say they had to raise interest rates by 1% in 2016 or 2%, for whatever reason.Not ideal for borrowers either side of the wall, but good for savers on both sides.The value of the £, so exports and imports.I'm struggling to see a scenario where someone like Carney would make a decision that benefits rUK but disadvantages Scotland?

We're talking partnerships between two countries, so there would have to be agreements on stuff like corp tax too, which maybe wouldn't suit Salmond, but he'll swallow, but it won't result the central bank 'controlling our economy'...we'll collect all our taxes and spend them on things we think are correct, which brings us back to nuclear weapons,HS2,food banks,thames sewage,boris island,wars etc...we'll set the agenda on the social improvement of Scotland, with all the taxes created in Scotland,spent in Scotland.

and again, I'm only seeing this thru the eyes of someone voting yes who wants to keep the £...I'd ditch it.

That's it. The BoE would work to minimise any negative impact a decision made on either Scotland or rUK. Some decisions might be more to the benefit of one party than the other - but a decision isn't going to be made to this significant detriment of either party to the agreement.

 

[NWJocko]

Sorry, but I'm not gonna engage with you on this.Get over the stereotypes and be sensible and I'll reply.



so we're talking about the value of the currency and the interest rate set by the central bank?Say they had to raise interest rates by 1% in 2016 or 2%, for whatever reason.Not ideal for borrowers either side of the wall, but good for savers on both sides.The value of the £, so exports and imports.I'm struggling to see a scenario where someone like Carney would make a decision that benefits rUK but disadvantages Scotland?

We're talking partnerships between two countries, so there would have to be agreements on stuff like corp tax too, which maybe wouldn't suit Salmond, but he'll swallow, but it won't result the central bank 'controlling our economy'...we'll collect all our taxes and spend them on things we think are correct, which brings us back to nuclear weapons,HS2,food banks,thames sewage,boris island,wars etc...we'll set the agenda on the social improvement of Scotland, with all the taxes created in Scotland,spent in Scotland.

and again, I'm only seeing this thru the eyes of someone voting yes who wants to keep the £...I'd ditch it.

This sort of emphasises what I'm getting at.

It's not so much whether the BoE Governor would make a decision to disadvantage Scotland, it's more a case of if Scotland (perhaps through misappropriation of their tax income etc) need to use economical levers that they don't have free access to.

The sectoral GDP make up of Scotland and UK minus Scotland is actually pretty different if you look at it therefore it's not inconceivable to be in a position where Scotland needs/wants a particular course of action that it can't carry out.

All hypotheticals, which is why I sort of agree with Old Skier and my previous point that all we've heard up to now is what Salmond wants to happen rather than what he has put in place to happen in the event of a Yes vote which could end up very different.

What would your currency plan be out of interest?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Sorry, but I'm not gonna engage with you on this.Get over the stereotypes and be sensible and I'll reply.



so we're talking about the value of the currency and the interest rate set by the central bank?Say they had to raise interest rates by 1% in 2016 or 2%, for whatever reason.Not ideal for borrowers either side of the wall, but good for savers on both sides.The value of the £, so exports and imports.I'm struggling to see a scenario where someone like Carney would make a decision that benefits rUK but disadvantages Scotland?

We're talking partnerships between two countries, so there would have to be agreements on stuff like corp tax too, which maybe wouldn't suit Salmond, but he'll swallow, but it won't result the central bank 'controlling our economy'...we'll collect all our taxes and spend them on things we think are correct, which brings us back to nuclear weapons,HS2,food banks,thames sewage,boris island,wars etc...we'll set the agenda on the social improvement of Scotland, with all the taxes created in Scotland,spent in Scotland.

and again, I'm only seeing this thru the eyes of someone voting yes who wants to keep the £...I'd ditch it.

Sorry but I thought, from your previous posts, that you were pro-independence and yet you are prepared to immediately cede control of fiscal policy to another nation.

Not a very grown up sort of independence is it?

I knew Salmond was a failed economist but I thought that even he would see that any decisions on monetary policy made by BoE would, in the first instance, be for the benefit of UK and Scotland's interests would inevitably be a secondary consideration. I agree that the interests of the two countries will often overlap but other times they will not.

I repeat, in any currency union, be it sterling or euro, there is inevitably a stronger partner whose interests will dominate.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

This sort of emphasises what I'm getting at.

It's not so much whether the BoE Governor would make a decision to disadvantage Scotland, it's more a case of if Scotland (perhaps through misappropriation of their tax income etc) need to use economical levers that they don't have free access to.

The sectoral GDP make up of Scotland and UK minus Scotland is actually pretty different if you look at it therefore it's not inconceivable to be in a position where Scotland needs/wants a particular course of action that it can't carry out.

All hypotheticals, which is why I sort of agree with Old Skier and my previous point that all we've heard up to now is what Salmond wants to happen rather than what he has put in place to happen in the event of a Yes vote which could end up very different.

What would your currency plan be out of interest?

Like printing more money? I'd be aiming for a pretty benign economy, nothing too racy.I'd also be looking to simplify the tax regime...as someone who owns a business with a 7/8 figure turnover, the meetings I have with accountants make my head spin.

I thought that, proportionally, they're not too far apart?

Obviously, both sides are as bad as each other, in public.Neither will be the first to blink and they'll let Darling/Carmichael and Sturgeon/Canavan and the minions get on with babbling and not conceding ground.The real chat will start after the result is in.

I'd take a punt on floating our own currency, I'd be keen on EFTA,UN and commonwealth membership.Short term pain but the creation of a central bank, economic levers(!) and interest setting abilities sounds good to me...but that won't happen just yet so we'll start with a baby step

 

[ger147]

bookies aren't usually wrong-
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/arti..._100_to_enter_currency_union_50_1_not_to.html

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

 

[NWJocko]

Like printing more money? I'd be aiming for a pretty benign economy, nothing too racy.I'd also be looking to simplify the tax regime...as someone who owns a business with a 7/8 figure turnover, the meetings I have with accountants make my head spin.

I thought that, proportionally, they're not too far apart?

Obviously, both sides are as bad as each other, in public.Neither will be the first to blink and they'll let Darling/Carmichael and Sturgeon/Canavan and the minions get on with babbling and not conceding ground.The real chat will start after the result is in.

I'd take a punt on floating our own currency, I'd be keen on EFTA,UN and commonwealth membership.Short term pain but the creation of a central bank, economic levers(!) and interest setting abilities sounds good to me...but that won't happen just yet so we'll start with a baby step

Not purely printing more money, changing interest rates, valuing or devaluing the currency, encouraging growth in certain sectors etc. To be fair, without printing more money the UK and the US would be living in an Ice Age at the moment!! Congrats on your business, hope it carries on being successful. Having the ability to shape your own economy 100% as you mention in your last paragraph. I can't for the life of me understand why pro independence people are happy to be so tied to the Union they want independence from....?

Not too close at all actually, which surprised me when I looked at it as that was my supposition aswell some time back. Financial Services, Scotland > 15% of GDP, UK minus Scotland <5% (approximately, there are other examples this is one off the top of my head).

It's not about "blinking". If I was voting I'd want to know why Salmond isn't spending every waking minute thrashing out with the UK government what is the most likely course of action post a Yes vote rather than all this mincing about by both sides. Carneyt himself said yesterday that Scotland (Salmond) need to negotiate with Westminster on currency union, why isn't he (unless he is but given his penchant for publicity I doubt it)?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Sorry but I thought, from your previous posts, that you were pro-independence and yet you are prepared to immediately cede control of fiscal policy to another nation.

Not a very grown up sort of independence is it?

I knew Salmond was a failed economist but I thought that even he would see that any decisions on monetary policy made by BoE would, in the first instance, be for the benefit of UK and Scotland's interests would inevitably be a secondary consideration. I agree that the interests of the two countries will often overlap but other times they will not.

I repeat, in any currency union, be it sterling or euro, there is inevitably a stronger partner whose interests will dominate.

To be clear, I'd ditch the £ and float a new currency, take on the liabilities we're responsible for from rUK along with the assets we're due, create a new central bank and go from there.I'd want the new 'Scottish pound' to initially be set at 1=1 with the £ and make it interchangeable for ease for joe bloggs.I'd want, initially, for a say, 5 year agreement on things like corp tax etc to be the same.It would be tough for Scotland, but also tough for England too,you'd be wiping away 10% of EVERYTHING but its seems correct to me to do it that way.

But I can appreciate thats not going to happen, so like a sensible person, i'm trying to see an option that might work within the framework we have just now.

 

[Old Skier]

Sorry, but I'm not gonna engage with you on this.Get over the stereotypes and be sensible and I'll reply.

Fair do's. Could you explain why the Yes campaign are so against members of the armed forces Scotish Regiments being excluded from the vote just because they may not reside in Scotland. The vote could/most probably will have implications on their jobs.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Fair do's. Could you explain why the Yes campaign are so against members of the armed forces Scotish Regiments being excluded from the vote just because they may not reside in Scotland. The vote could/most probably will have implications on their jobs.

Scottish Regiment singular, not plural, but that's a whole new area we might be best avoid.

I have a degree of sympathy with them tbh, but the vote has to be about the folk who live,work and contribute to Scotland, who will be directly and immediately affected by the result.Joining the armed forces means you have to accept you'll be moving does it not?It's part of the package, part of the 'adventure', so with that an acceptance that you'll be on the electoral role elsewhere.

It's the 'west lothian' question in reverse.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not a very grown up sort of independence is it?

If Scotland in a 'sterling zone' ceding some powers is not quite 'full' independence then so be it - that is what the Scottish voters would be voting for.

And independence isn't just for Christmas - it's for good. If 30yrs down the line a 'sterling zone' isn't working too well for Scotland or if the country just decides that it wants to remove any co-dependency with the rUK - then it will no doubt have a referendum with a view to leaving the 'sterling zone'. Not all questions have to be answered and preferred solitions in place on day 1 - or indeed by yr1, 5 or 10.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Scottish Regiment singular, not plural, but that's a whole new area we might be best avoid.

I have a degree of sympathy with them tbh, but the vote has to be about the folk who live,work and contribute to Scotland, who will be directly and immediately affected by the result.Joining the armed forces means you have to accept you'll be moving does it not?It's part of the package, part of the 'adventure', so with that an acceptance that you'll be on the electoral role elsewhere.

It's the 'west lothian' question in reverse.

And a decision that I too have to live with - as much as I might claim a right to be part of determining the future of my country. But I live in England - so I don't have that opportunity. That is notwithstanding the fact that the decision whichever way will have an indirect/secondary effect on me through my own wider family living in Scotland.

To be told that the impact of the decision on my mother in her mid-80s will not have any impact on me is a bit hard to agree with- but there you go. Nothing I can do about it so no point in moaning about it further - I don't get a vote - end of.

 

[Old Skier]

Scottish Regiment singular, not plural.

Wrong but never mind. I suppose we were only of any use during fire fighting, rubbish collection and the odd bit of flood relief. I presume you won't want them back then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Scottish Regiment singular, not plural, but that's a whole new area we might be best avoid.

I have a degree of sympathy with them tbh, but the vote has to be about the folk who live,work and contribute to Scotland, who will be directly and immediately affected by the result.Joining the armed forces means you have to accept you'll be moving does it not?It's part of the package, part of the 'adventure', so with that an acceptance that you'll be on the electoral role elsewhere.

It's the 'west lothian' question in reverse.

People in the military can be on electoral rolls in their home town - you also have a great deal of people in the military in Scotland that are English.

Can the English living in Scotland vote ?

You mentioned that bookies are rarely wrong ? Have you seen the odds for a No vote ?

You seem to have your heart and head ready for a yes vote - what about if a no vote happens ( currently the bookies see it and polls see it )

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Wrong but never mind. I suppose we were only of any use during fire fighting, rubbish collection and the odd bit of flood relief. I presume you won't want them back then.

In the British Armed forces, there is only one Scottish Regiment now,is that not correct?Apologies if I'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In the British Armed forces, there is only one Scottish Regiment now,is that not correct?Apologies if I'm wrong.

Think there is about 12 Scottish Regiments

 

[Adi2Dassler]

People in the military can be on electoral rolls in their home town - you also have a great deal of people in the military in Scotland that are English.

Can the English living in Scotland vote ?

You mentioned that bookies are rarely wrong ? Have you seen the odds for a No vote ?

You seem to have your heart and head ready for a yes vote - what about if a no vote happens ( currently the bookies see it and polls see it )

anyone, born in any country can vote if they're on the electoral role in Scotland..English,Polish,american,scouser ;-) anyone.

I have seen the odds on the result, and I've seen them get closer...but the currency zone odds of 1/100 is slightly different.

And I'll be honestly gutted if No wins, really really gutted.

 

[Old Skier]

You seem to have your heart and head ready for a yes vote - what about if a no vote happens

That's my main area of concern, nationalists are not known to take defeat very well.

I believe it is ok to vote as long as you are not English but I'm sure some one will come up with the correct answer.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Think there is about 12 Scottish Regiments

12 battalions, but one regiment?