Rules re Improving your line.

[19th]

If putting on a green, repairing a pitch mark on your line is within the rules.

If putting from off the green repairing the pitch mark on the green in your line is OK, in my opinion.

However if putting from off the green and the pitch mark is on the edge of the green...as in marking your ball...do YOU decide if the pitch mark is on or off the putting surface..ie repairable?

 

[Fyldewhite]

If putting on a green, repairing a pitch mark on your line is within the rules.

Yes

If putting from off the green repairing the pitch mark on the green in your line is OK, in my opinion.

Yes, this is allowed in the rules.

However if putting from off the green and the pitch mark is on the edge of the green...as in marking your ball...do YOU decide if the pitch mark is on or off the putting surface..ie repairable?

If the pitch mark is on the green then it may be repaired, if not then it can't. If half and half I'd guess that it is classed as on the green (like a ball in the same position would be) so it would be OK..... I think

Addition - just checked and it is OK. Decision 16-1c/1.5

 

[19th]

Thanks for that..I was challenged for repairing a pitch mark on the edge of the green and as the lack of growth at the moment on our links course is such that the green/apron is less defined, I understood the reason for the challenge.

With marking your ball, apart from cleaning, you do not really enjoy a great advantage by marking and replacing BUT if there is a large pitch mark, this green/apron question does give an advantage (putter instead of pitching iron) and due to this, I wondered if I had to maybe get a second opinion prior to making the repair to eliminate doubt.

I feel this lack of involvement is what prompted the challenge.

 

[JustOne]

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

 

[Fyldewhite]

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

Absolutely. I think the most important rule to know is the "play two balls" rule. It allows you to carry on without any disagreement with your playing partners and safe in the knowledge that you can't be disqualified etc. It's very hard to play well when you have a nagging doubt going round your head over a "dodgy decision" that's been made earlier in the round. The OP would probably be a perfect example of where a ruling wouldn't even be needed as 9/10 you would have taken the same score with each ball anyway.

 

[Region3]

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

Absolutely. I think the most important rule to know is the "play two balls" rule. It allows you to carry on without any disagreement with your playing partners and safe in the knowledge that you can't be disqualified etc. It's very hard to play well when you have a nagging doubt going round your head over a "dodgy decision" that's been made earlier in the round. The OP would probably be a perfect example of where a ruling wouldn't even be needed as 9/10 you would have taken the same score with each ball anyway.

Would that be allowed, since hitting the putt once gives you a read for the second one?

 

[Fyldewhite]

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

Absolutely. I think the most important rule to know is the "play two balls" rule. It allows you to carry on without any disagreement with your playing partners and safe in the knowledge that you can't be disqualified etc. It's very hard to play well when you have a nagging doubt going round your head over a "dodgy decision" that's been made earlier in the round. The OP would probably be a perfect example of where a ruling wouldn't even be needed as 9/10 you would have taken the same score with each ball anyway.

Would that be allowed, since hitting the putt once gives you a read for the second one?

Good point but I think it's OK and just following the rule. You have to say which one you want to count before starting and you can always argue that you learn from the first shot (wind speed, bounce on green etc) in any situation that you invoke the rule.

 

[19th]

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

Thanks for that but I'm a wee bit puzzled... how would the secretary, in his office, know if the pitch mark was on the green or on the apron.

The rules, relating to this I understand fully .... my question was - do I, prior to repairing the pitch mark, ask my playing partner for his opinion as to the cut of the green?

I would not do this if marking my ball and I assume it is the same for repairing the pichmark BUT does etiquette dictate the involvement of my fellow player?

 

[Fyldewhite]

You should always ask your marker or other competitor before you do anything that might be considered debatable. I don't understand why you make the distinction between the pitch mark and marking your ball. If your ball may be considered off the green then you should ensure that your marker is happy with your interpretation of the cut of the green and agree your ball is on the green before you mark.

In the case of the pitch mark then yes, you should ask your marker to agree that part of it is on the green and it can be repaired. You don't have to, but a bit of common sense and courtesy will save perhaps a lot of argument and bad feeling if you get accused of doing something you shouldn't have. Of course, if you can't agree you have the play two balls rule as above.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Interesting post. While I was composing my reply Fyldewhite, as usual, got it spot on. Anyway here it is if you're interested.

I can't see this covered specifically in the "Etiquette" section. The nearest is under "The Spirit of the Game"

"Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf."

Personally, if I think there could be any doubt in any situation about whether I am acting within the rules then I would check with my playing partner/opponent first before doing anything. That avoids awkward situations, allows diasagreements to be resolved and also acts as a check that I am applying the rules correctly. This is especially true if there is some element of interpretation involved.

Imagine if you repair the mark in the situation you describe without checking and your opponent says "Oi! you can't do that, that mark was off the green!". Could be unpleasant and you've lost the option of playing a second ball (I think).

In fact if I am taking any sort of relief or even when I am repairing a pitchmark on my line on the green, I will let my playing partner/opponent know what I am going to do and give them a chance to check the situation if they want. Again I think that is good manners and avoids awkward situations.

That's just my view others may disagree.

If in doubt you should always ask your opponent, have a rule book in your bag, and or possibly play with the pitch mark there then repair it and play again - then ask the club secretary for a ruling upon completion of the round.

Thanks for that but I'm a wee bit puzzled... how would the secretary, in his office, know if the pitch mark was on the green or on the apron.

Good point. Only thing I can think of is that you put a ball marker or push a tee peg into the ground to mark the spot in case the sec wants to go and have a look (and hope the group behind does'nt move it!). Must be a decision on this that one of the rules experts can dig up. Otherwise, if it's your word against his the nearest I can find is decision 34-3/4, relating to a dispute about teeing outside the teeing ground, which said

"In this case, it was B's word against A's and the weight of evidence did not favour either competitor. In such a case, the benefit of the doubt should be given to A, the player of the stroke."

Don't know if that helps.