Rules Query

[Watski]

Hi, wonder if anyone can help me.

I've had a run in today with our competition secretary.

A friend and I had booked a tee time on our club competition board for 7.30 this morning, on Thursday another friend who is a member asked whether he could play with us. As there were no tee times around 7.30 we booked a non competiton time for 10.30, for us 3 - this still allowed us to sign in for the competition though. As we are not able to remove names from the competition tee time board after Wednesdays we couldn't remove ourselves from the tee time.

The competition secretary approached me after my round today and said "are you 2 lads the ones that should have played at 7.30?" I answered that we were and explained the situation. His simple answer was "well thats a 2 shot penalty then", and walked off.

I followed him and enquired about the rule and where I might be able to see a copy of it. He replied that it didnt have to be anywhere as it was a well known rule in golf and I should be aware of it as I'd been playing long enough. I asked him whether it was a local rule and he said "no, it's a well known golf rule".

So there we have it, if its a R&A rule then I dont know about it - but ignorance is no defence so I'll know better next time. If it's a local rule then I also dont know about it, but surely it should be displayed somewhere rather than the first time you're aware of a rule is when you break it.

Can anyone point me in the right diection?

 

[roccokj]

Its pretty hard to make a decision on this one but your secretary is wrong on one part...it is disqualification for being late for your tee time and not a two shot penalty (i think so anyway). But this rule only applies to certain competitions which are only played during a certain time (like the PGA Tour, European Tour). In your case I don't think any penalty can be applied. That rule is not a well known rule of golf either, especially on the secretary's part!

 

[Ethan]

If you miss a tee time in a comp, you are DQ'd, but there is no rule about taking out a comp card in a time slot not allowed by the club. The club may have a rule covering this, but you should either be allowed to mark a card or not.

The Secretary can't make up a local rule just as he wishes.

 

[SammmeBee]

The Committee can introduce a condition of the competition that allows a '5 minute window' that allows for a 2 shot penalty before you get DQ'd....with what you did you should have been DQ'd.

Why didn't you ring someone on Wednesday and change your time? Or just play at 0730 as you were going to?

 

[RGDave]

I think this just stinks.

You moved your time to accommodate another member? Under the rules of your club, you are not allowed to "remove" your name after Wednesday, but you did so for good reason and anyone who wants to take issue with you on this is a twit.

Either you get DQ'd for not turning up or your comp' man needs to understand your good reason for doing this. Presumably, you were down in a two ball or four-ball for 7.30? if so, no-one has lost out.

Pathetic. Sorry, but if a member chooses to move his time for a good reason, then that should be acceptable.

I've moved later/earlier on numerous occasions even on the day (not to "blow out" the comp) but to accommodate other players....

Even if 4-ball wanted to move from 7.00 to 10.00 for the sake of one player, I'd say that's good enough. You are MEMBERS, it's not like anyone has lost anything at all..

 

[Leftie]

To my mind, there are faults all round on this one.

In the first place, you had booked a 7.30 tee time, not cancelled it (see below), did not turn up on time. Therefore D/Q. It can't be a 2 shot penalty as you didn't submit a card for the time slot booked.

You may have deprived other golfers from playing in the comp through your unused tee time. Should be banned from next 3 comps.

BUT it is ludicrous that you can't withdraw from a tee time after Wednesday. You should be allowed to do so anytime up to the morning of the comp. Who knows what can happen between Wednesday and the weekend game.

I think that I would pursue the comp sec on this. Anyone who says something is "a well known rule/fact" usually knows diddly squat about the matter, otherwise they would quote you chapter and verse. Also, he/she needs to be able to be more flexible about tee bookings for comps.

What I'm saying, I think, is that...

The system at your club is wrong
You were wrong because you knew the system
The comp sec was wrong because he perpetuates a poor system and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Simples

 

[JustOne]

As we are not able to remove names from the competition tee time board after Wednesdays we couldn't remove ourselves from the tee time.

Sounds like a silly rule... I'm wondering what it is at my club

I'd probably have just said to the club sec.. "Do what you want mate, it's just a game"

 

[Watski]

Thanks for your help everyone.

I guess I also feel at fault technically for not saying somtething to the club about us not turning up for our 7.30 tee time, although I'd booked another time. However, this is the first club I've been a member of and have done this a couple of times before without issue, so I've believed that this was acceptable. The other person was my brother by the way, and I just wanted to play with him. You are right RGDave - we were initially part of a 4-ball who then just went out as a 2-ball, the other 2 are people who we play with regularly and I rang them on Thursday to tell them that I wouldn't be coming at 7.30 on the Saturday.

I believe that the club, tired of people booking Saturday morning comp slots then pulling out up to 12 hours before, have extended the cut-off time to Wednesday PM. If you are booked in the computer by Wednesday PM then you get fined if you dont turn up.

I think what I am saying is that; yes I agree with any established rules - if I am DQ'd then thats fine (a friend who plays at another club says that I would be DQd at his club and that our comp sec is making the rules up as he goes), but what I'm struggling with is the random nature of the way that my club is dealing with it, either there's a rule (local or national), and a copy on the notice board if local - or there isn't.

 

[viscount17]

For us, once the draw is posted, which may be up to a week or more in advance, any changes, withdrawals etc have to be made through the comp sec or starter for that comp (not easy as they never seem to answer their phones or emails).
altering the sheet is a two-match ban; missing the tee-time (eg failing to turn up) is a dq and ban, I think late arrival can be a two-shot penalty.

 

[forefortheday]

To what is he applying the 2 shot penalty?

Your next game in a comp (can't do that) your social game at 10;30 (does it matter) or to a score you haven't achieved?

Don't turn up at our place it's a £5 fine, If you ring upto 5pm on the Friday before then the only penalty is not being able to play in the comp that day (but can on the other available day).

I suffered due to this on Saturday turned up for a team scramble to discover my partner hadn't turned up, found him in the bar after the round

He apologised but it's not much fum watching everyone else play scramble when you are effectively playing a medal off 3/4 handicap.

 

[chrisd]

If it helps the rules say:

note: The Committee may provide, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), that if the player arrives at his starting point, ready to play,within five minutes after his starting time, in the absence of circumstances that warrant waiving the penalty of disqualification as provided in Rule 33-7, the penalty for failure to start on time is loss of the first hole in match play or two strokes at the first hole in stroke play instead of disqualification.

As I see it, if the club had a rule on competition play about late arrival then it can impose a 2 shot penalty (on the first hole) for arrival up to 5 minutes after the official start time - but not at without a rule covering it.

The a failure to start on time is oterwise d/q from the competition - so the 2 shot penalty can't be applied to this or any other game.

I do however feel that if you enter knowing the withdrawal rules, you should not withdraw and play any other game without the approval of the Club - if you dont like the rule either write and ask for it to be reviewed by the Club Committee or stick to the rules!

 

[tonto768]

I'm with Leftie onthis one. At our place the comp sec does the draw Thursday afternoon after which it can't be altered. No penalty for not turning up unless repeated (more than 3 times in a season)in which case a four week ban from all competitions can be issued.