Rules Q

[vig]

If ball is in a bunker, in casual water and is further from the hole than any point of relief in same bunker. Where would relief be taken?.

 

[Wildrover]

Outside the bunker under penalty of 1 stroke. Probably the unfairest rule in golf.

 

[DCB]

That's one of golfs 'bummer' situations I think. Only way is to declare unplayable and drop under penalty I think.

 

[MikeB]

You can take relief by going back to the place the last shot was taken from under penalty of 1 stroke, otherwise it's tough luck, play it where it lies.

 

[pbrown7582]

A nasty predicament seems like it's a penalty or put waterproofs on and pretend your bill haas

 

[DaveM]

Drop outside the back of the bunker no nearer the hole, with one stroke penalty. (just checked the rules)

 

[MashieNiblick]

If you can't get complete relief you also have the option of dropping at the nearest point in the bunker (not nearer the hole) where you get maximum available relief. Rule 25-1(b)ii(a)

Decision 25-1b/8 Player's Options When Bunker Completely Covered by Casual Water

"Q. If a player's ball lies in a bunker completely covered by casual water, what are his options?

A. The player may play the ball as it lies or:

(1) drop the ball in the bunker without penalty at the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the depth of the casual water is least – Rule 25-1b(ii)(a); or
(2) drop the ball behind the bunker under penalty of one stroke – Rule 25-1b(ii)(b); or
(3) deem the ball unplayable and proceed in accordance with Rule 28."
​

 

[rosecott]

If ball is in a bunker, in casual water and is further from the hole than any point of relief in same bunker. Where would relief be taken?.

By "further from the hole than any point of relief" do you mean there isn't a spot clear of water which is not nearer the hole? If so, you have the further option of "dropping the ball in the bunker without penalty at the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the depth of the casual water is least".

 

[SGC001]

If ball is in a bunker, in casual water and is further from the hole than any point of relief in same bunker. Where would relief be taken?.

I haven't got a rule book to hand, but I think that's an occasion where if there is full relief in the bunker available and that point is closer to the hole (assuming there is no position of full relief within the bunker that is no nearer the hole) you also have the option of dropping it closer to the hole under no penalty (although dropping it tends to plug it). This goes along with the penalty ptions of replay shot or back in line outside of the bunker.

 

[rosecott]

I haven't got a rule book to hand, but I think that's an occasion where if there is full relief in the bunker available and that point is closer to the hole (assuming there is no position of full relief within the bunker that is no nearer the hole) you also have the option of dropping it closer to the hole under no penalty (although dropping it tends to plug it). This goes along with the penalty ptions of replay shot or back in line outside of the bunker.

Nope - never nearer the hole.

 

[SGC001]

Nope - never nearer the hole.

I remain to be convinced. I may be wrong, however that is not the most convincing argument I've come across; not least because in certain circumstances drop zones can be places where you drop nearer the hole.

I did like the earlier post on hazard lines though and suspect that is probably how they were written.

 

[USER1999]

Just get in there and play it out, ya big Yorkshire wuss.

 

[backwoodsman]

I remain to be convinced. I may be wrong, however that is not the most convincing argument I've come across; not least because in certain circumstances drop zones can be places where you drop nearer the hole.

I did like the earlier post on hazard lines though and suspect that is probably how they were written.

DZs are a special circumstance & are a situation where you are told where to drop - often without choice. Under the "regular rules", where you choose your relief option, relief is indeed never nearer the hole.

 

[Pants]

Just get in there and play it out, ya big Yorkshire wuss.

And that's from the man who's greatest hate in the rules of golf is water filled bunkers.

 

[USER1999]

It's not advice that I would follow, granted.

 

[SGC001]

DZs are a special circumstance & are a situation where you are told where to drop - often without choice. Under the "regular rules", where you choose your relief option, relief is indeed never nearer the hole.

There is nothing irregular about a drop zone, that's part of the rules, drop zones are often optional places to drop.

I believe the bunker and casual water may also be an exception.

I am aware that in the defintions you can find nearest point of relief referring to not nearer the hole but...

If you look at rule 25-1 b ii. it reads In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:
(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

I'm paying attention to the part referring to full relief reads except that the npr must be in the bunker and doesn't mention not nearer to the hole, yet the part about where it complete relief is impossible refers to no nearewr the hole.

I reading that as an exception to the normal definition. I'm trying to remember who it was who suggested this option was available, there is better than even chance it was a rules official.

I guess it's be play 2 balls position for me and see what the rules officials say in future.

 

[rosecott]

(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition

I'm paying attention to the part referring to full relief reads except that the npr must be in the bunker and doesn't mention not nearer to the hole, yet the part about where it complete relief is impossible refers to no nearewr the hole.

Are you absolutely sure it doesn't mention "not nearer the hole".

 

[MashieNiblick]

The reference point in Rule 25-1 is the "nearest point of relief"

The Definition of "nearest point of relief" is

The "nearest point of relief" is the reference point for taking relief without penalty from interference by an immovable obstruction (Rule 24-2), an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1) or a wrong putting green (Rule 25-3).
It is the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:
(i) that is not nearer the hole, and
(ii) where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there.

Therefore the references to "nearest point of relief" in Rule 25 (and any other Rule where it is mentioned) automatically mean not nearer the hole.

Dropping Zones are not provided for in the main Rules but may be adopted by virtue of a local Rule (Appendix 1a - 6). The specimen local rule proposed in the Rules (Appendix 1b - 8) does permit the ball to end up nearer the hole but that is indeed very much an exception to the Rules and if you think about it is reasonable given the purpose of dropping zones which is to provide an area in which to drop the ball "when it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with (the relevant rules)". In other words it is a specific exception for where the normal rules can't be applied.

 

[backwoodsman]

Thank you Mashie - saved me typing it out...

 

[SGC001]

In accordance with clause 1 except

it's the exept that makes me question the interpretation of this rule in addition to the wording including not nearer the hole for the second part, but not specifically for the 2st part.

Rules are written very specifically why would you mention not nearer the hole for the 2nd bit if it was applicable to the 1st bit which uses the word except and in hazard for nearest point.

This bit
in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker....