Robotic or touchy feely...

[bluewolf]

I need to fix my car..... do I spend 100hrs tinkering with it or look in the manual?

Is the wrong analogy. A better analogy would be " I want to become a mechanic, am I best learning at college, or just buying an old car and working on it." Personally, I'd prefer to learn by working on an old car, some would prefer to learn in a classroom. Swings and roundabouts... Geddit? Swings??? Roundabouts?? Geddit? Too subtle?

 

[JustOne]

you take it in to your mechanic

So you don't spend 100hrs working on it yourself alone? OK, I'm cool with that.

 

[londonlewis]

So you don't spend 100hrs working on it yourself alone? OK, I'm cool with that.

I was actually saying you take it in to your mechanic.

Your analogy isn't particularly great in my opinion as I don't believe you can switch a golfer for a car in terms of the way you need to 'fix' a swing vs. fixing an automobile.

 

[Robobum]

Tinkering with my swing on my own won't cost me £25k to replace if I don't get it right.

 

[bluewolf]

Tinkering with my swing on my own won't cost me £25k to replace if I don't get it right.

Might do if you keep buying new clubs to fix the swing fault. Not saying that people do this obviously....

 

[JustOne]

My car is only worth £400 (if that!) My car is a 27 h/cap car

Clearly there are THREE sides:

one side that says "stand in a field for 10,000hrs"

another that says "learn some stuff about your swing to save all those hours"

and another (odd one) that says "stand in a field but be prepared to take your swing to a mechanic when that doesn't work"



And I'm done here.

No point in going round the argument. I'm in the "learn some stuff to save the hassle of flogging it out on the range for 10yrs" camp, whether that's with a pro, from books, Golf Monthly magazine, Youtube or the forum is up to the individual.

 

[Snelly]

I need to fix my car..... do I spend 100hrs tinkering with it or look in the manual?

Bad Analogy.

More accurate way of fitting this example would be to ask the question, "I want to be the best mechanic I can be, with a goal of being in the top 1% of UK grease monkeys. How do I do it?"

The answer is that you would start at the beginning and learn the basics, probably at a technical college. You would then learn on the job either as an apprentice or trainee and after hundreds of hours, some trial and error, a few mistakes, lots of observation, some outside help when required, you would start to climb the learning curve and the things that were once difficult start to become routine. You then push yourself on to learn more, putting in the extra hours and gaining extra experience. Thousands of hours later, with countless successful examples of work completed, you will be at your goal. A top mechanic, capable of doing things that others cannot.

No quick fixes are available. You have to work hard.


Still not a great example in this context though as to be a mechanic you do need to understand how things work at a very detailed level. To be a good golfer, you don't. Just like you can be a great driver without knowing how to rebuild a gearbox.

 

[JustOne]

The answer is that you would start at the beginning and learn the basics, probably at a technical college. You would then learn on the job either as an apprentice or trainee and after hundreds of hours, some trial and error, a few mistakes, lots of observation, some outside help when required, you would start to climb the learning curve and the things that were once difficult start to become routine.

Fair enough Snelly, quite a bit of assistance there, not quite the same as flogging it out all by yourself, alone in a field, trial and error, for 10,000hrs with no outside input..... oops! I'm not here.......

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Fair enough Snelly, quite a bit of assistance there, not quite the same as flogging it out all by yourself, alone in a field, trial and error, for 10,000hrs with no outside input..... oops! I'm not here.......

I think Snelly is agreeing with what he wrote before JO?

technical college = learning the GASP
apprentice = lots and lots of golf, picking things up off other people
some outside help when required = seeing a pro if you really have to.

I'm firmly in the field of each to their own. I've seen a few friends completely lose their swing having so many swing thoughts put in their head by a pro, and one friend who is clearly a natural golfer, has played since he was a kid and has had approximately 30 minutes of lessons in that time. If he has a problem, goes to the range, works through it, and more often than not, fixes it.

 

[BoadieBroadus]

i'm more for the "robotic" camp. when I took up the game again as a 30yr olf having played a bit as a boy, i had an ability to apply the clubface to ball quite easily, but unfortunately it involved breaking my wrists, swing back around my waist and then attacking the ball like an eskimo at a baby seal. i also had to flip the hands to avoid plunging the club head through the driving range floor.

had i not had my posture / plane etc corrected by seeing it on video I can't imagine i would have been any better off after years of hitting balls. for every bubba watson who's never had a lesson, there are thousands of middle aged members who scoff at instruction and whose handicaps haven't moved below 16 for decades

 

[Snelly]

Fair enough Snelly, quite a bit of assistance there, not quite the same as flogging it out all by yourself, alone in a field, trial and error, for 10,000hrs with no outside input..... oops! I'm not here.......

You imply that I am changing my tune and I am not. Not at all. Initial lessons on basics and then play golf. Thousands of rounds, learning slowly but surely with the occasional MOT if required. One lesson a year perhaps.

CheltenhamHacker - you are quite right.

 

[3PuttCharlie]

Tinkering with my swing on my own won't cost me £25k to replace if I don't get it right.

I'm Ok - I spent more on my irons than I did on my car

 

[JustOne]

Initial lessons on basics and then play golf. Thousands of rounds, learning slowly but surely with the occasional MOT if required. One lesson a year perhaps.

I'm just wondering how/if that fits into Hobbit's sentiment of "my touchy feely belief that golf can be easily self taught" and if the 1000's of rounds you refer to comply with his definition of "EASY".........

Hobbit?


(my lawn mower cost TWICE as much as my car)

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Feel every time. Learn the basics, ensure GASP is correct then swing the club back and through. Just think about where you want to hit the ball.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I tend to be a very feel person when I am having a lesson and try to just feel the club in the right place and how the motion is suppose to feel. Tend to take that to the range but often much harder to recreate on my own. On the course I still have remnants of the old technical Homer but have cut down the number of swing thoughts by several thousand per shot. Tend to do a lot more trusting but do slip back into robotic or technical as a better description especially if I'm having a shocker. A lot of that in the first round at Woburn and on the front nine at Ascot today.

 

[leaney]

I'm in the 'feel' camp.

I would like to know where the 'modern swing' came from and who decided that everyone should be swinging this way?

If we should be laerning from anyone then shoudnt it be from Ben Hogan, the best ball striker on the planet but today's pros want to see you swinging like Luke Donald or Adam Scott. If you're going to copy someone, you may as well copy the best.

If not, then teach yourself.

 

[Andy808]

Can you get a fitting to find out which is better for you?

 

[SocketRocket]

I doubt if anyone suggests that a golfer should have a head full of swing thoughts when playing the course. The time for the thoughts are when practising and grooving in good habits. This is not so different than 'Snellys' view of spending 10,000 hours practising, surely you must be trying to achieve something during these hours and have some thoughts on what that is.

The only difference in these two methods is how much coaching and/or understanding the student will need to be able to make a fair strike at the ball. Sorry for repeating myself from previous threads but the answer to this has much to do with the individuals natural abilities coupled with their golfing ambitions. I know many people that have never had a golf lesson and play off 20+, they have played golf for a very long time but will never get any better as they have a flawed swing and make poor ball contact, they don't know why and probably never will. I also know golfers who have never had any coaching and are very good golfers, I don't know many of these though. 'Most' of the fair to good golfers I know have been coached and tend to have refresher lessons a few times a year.

Horses for Courses again!!

EDIT!!

Can someone explain to me exactly what this 'Feel' golf is about? Is it doing something that you don't understand. Is it making delicate swings. Is it steering the club. Is it making less than full shots. Is it something that happens with your hands? I am genuinely interested to know as I am unclear on what the term means.

 

[kid2]

I'm in the 'feel' camp.

I would like to know where the 'modern swing' came from and who decided that everyone should be swinging this way?

If we should be laerning from anyone then shoudnt it be from Ben Hogan, the best ball striker on the planet but today's pros want to see you swinging like Luke Donald or Adam Scott. If you're going to copy someone, you may as well copy the best.

If not, then teach yourself.

I love Hogans swing..... Even more so because I can't swing like Scott does... I know everyone ogles his swing but to me its very disconnected...... Just my opinion though.. ...

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm in the 'feel' camp.

I would like to know where the 'modern swing' came from and who decided that everyone should be swinging this way?

If we should be laerning from anyone then shoudnt it be from Ben Hogan, the best ball striker on the planet but today's pros want to see you swinging like Luke Donald or Adam Scott. If you're going to copy someone, you may as well copy the best.

If not, then teach yourself.

Hogan was very much one of the designers of the modern golf swing, he was someone who studied and explained how he believed you should swing the golf club. His books broke the swing down into very fine detail and are still some of the best teaching books ever written.