Robotic or touchy feely...

[Hobbit]

EDIT!!

Can someone explain to me exactly what this 'Feel' golf is about? Is it doing something that you don't understand. Is it making delicate swings. Is it steering the club. Is it making less than full shots. Is it something that happens with your hands? I am genuinely interested to know as I am unclear on what the term means.

There's a school of thought that speaks of intuitive golf, i.e. do it as you feel it should be done. It was best explained to me about how you throw a piece of waste paper into a bin. You don't think about it, you crumple it up and just throw it. More often than not you hit the bin. But with the next piece of paper, think about hand position, maybe knuckle up, and so on and so on. You will start missing when you over think the process. Another analogy is jumping from A to B, an X on the pavement. You don't think about how, you think about the result - its on auto-pilot... we're getting back to the psychology of learning, and how results are achieved.

But, again, the thing about over complication and looking for the perfect swing - angle of dangle. MikeH's response to the 'star letter' in this month's mag, specifically what the pro's think. Its about how many, not how.

If your version works, robotic or otherwise, just go for it.

 

[SocketRocket]

There's a school of thought that speaks of intuitive golf, i.e. do it as you feel it should be done. It was best explained to me about how you throw a piece of waste paper into a bin. You don't think about it, you crumple it up and just throw it. More often than not you hit the bin. But with the next piece of paper, think about hand position, maybe knuckle up, and so on and so on. You will start missing when you over think the process. Another analogy is jumping from A to B, an X on the pavement. You don't think about how, you think about the result - its on auto-pilot... we're getting back to the psychology of learning, and how results are achieved.

But, again, the thing about over complication and looking for the perfect swing - angle of dangle. MikeH's response to the 'star letter' in this month's mag, specifically what the pro's think. Its about how many, not how.

If your version works, robotic or otherwise, just go for it.

Still not clear. The throwing the paper in the bin and jumping to an X is not the same as striking a stationary ball with a golf club, still cant understand the 'Feel'. If you used your analogy then it would be better to look at the hole when putting.

I did say that IMO no one suggests someone should have multi swing thoughts when playing and this is something for the range. I believe strongly that your focus should be out at the target when striking a ball but I still suspect that this 'Feel' in golf is not a real thing but a bit of a myth and really means 'Skill'

 

[MattM]

I’m trying to relate this discussion to a sport I know a bit more about and that I used to coach – skiing.

You get a lot of mostly self-taught skiers, akin to ‘feel’ golfers who have spent a lot of time on the hill getting miles in but taking a long time to get ‘good’ and with no real technique. To do this and stay in the sport you need a good level of innate sporting ability, otherwise it is literally too painful.

You also get a lot of what I call cardboard cutout technique skiers – akin to robot golfers who have spent all their time in lessons working on hitting set positions but getting adequate quickly. Pretty much anybody can learn to ski to a decent level with this approach.

Both types of skier can look very good on the hill but which is best depends on the subjective view of the observer, do they like the natural flow of the feel skier, or the technical precision of the robot skier.

The difference between the two is more apparent when you crank up the difficulty of the slope, and look to see who copes the best. Most of the time the feel skier wins out with their natural ability, until the difficulty level is really cranked up. Then the ‘robot’ skier tends to get down the hill in better shape because they have a technique or framework to fall back on that gives them the tools to get down. The feel skier cannot cope with the technical requirements of the slope and blows out.

However, the really top skiers are either the ‘technique’ skiers who also spent time developing ‘feel’, or ‘feel’ skiers who develop technique. There’s not a lot to choose between them.

My advice - if you’re going skiing, always get lessons, but spend time free skiing. Having said that, I’ve not had a golf lesson for 30 years - but my 6 yr old son has

 

[Foxholer]

Horses for Courses again!!

EDIT!!

Can someone explain to me exactly what this 'Feel' golf is about? Is it doing something that you don't understand. Is it making delicate swings. Is it steering the club. Is it making less than full shots. Is it something that happens with your hands? I am genuinely interested to know as I am unclear on what the term means.

Connecting the Horses and Courses....

Many years ago, I gave Wifey 1 a book called 'Ride With You Mind' for Christmas - and read it myself of course! That book proposed a concept quite early - 'feelages' - which are the 'feel' equivalent of images. Establishment and maintenance of feelages seems very important in Golf. Either method can do this, but the Robotic approach is likely to get there quicker imo, if done properly. Seems to me that's why the Pros still have trainers.

Visualisation is the other mind/swing related aspect imo, - something that benefits more from the Snelly 'play lots of Golf' approach than the robotic one.

Then there's the competitiveness aspects that are purely mind-related, though the evidence of ability is in the shot, or the recovery, or how a round turned! That's a completely different challenge!

 

[SocketRocket]

Still Confused.com with this feel golf. As I have stated earlier no one would want to have lots of swing thoughts or swing the club in a 'Robotic' manner when playing golf. Surely the "robotic' phrase relates to a learning method whereby the student is taught positions to move the club through and get the body into. A learning process not a playing concept.

People say they are a feel player, so what exactly does that mean? If we are mostly abandoning swing thoughts and trusting the swing we have learned then are we all 'Feel' players. 'Feel' relates to the sense of touch, the sensations the hands experience when contacting objects. It also relates to 'Feelings, or our emotions.

So! what do we mean when we say we are 'Feel Players' ?

 

[MattM]

So! what do we mean when we say we are 'Feel Players'

Good question, and where do they fit in the 4 stages of learning? Is it when players have reached the unconsciously competent stage? Or are they still unconsciously incompetent?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

The four stages is just a theory though so plenty of room for other views of skill development

I'd also like to know if the feel players have ever watched videos or other good players play and tried to incorporate what they saw into their game. Even if their is no direct 'tuition' there is some 'learning' of technique going on.

 

[bluewolf]

Still Confused.com with this feel golf. As I have stated earlier no one would want to have lots of swing thoughts or swing the club in a 'Robotic' manner when playing golf. Surely the "robotic' phrase relates to a learning method whereby the student is taught positions to move the club through and get the body into. A learning process not a playing concept.

People say they are a feel player, so what exactly does that mean? If we are mostly abandoning swing thoughts and trusting the swing we have learned then are we all 'Feel' players. 'Feel' relates to the sense of touch, the sensations the hands experience when contacting objects. It also relates to 'Feelings, or our emotions.

So! what do we mean when we say we are 'Feel Players' ?

It may be that "feel" is the wrong word. In my case I'm referring to a method of learning that suits me best. I prefer to watch good players, listen to people who understand the game, then try to understand what the required actions are. Once I think I understand, then I try to perform those actions, or as near to them as I can. If I'm struggling, then I prefer to take a step back and understand the problem I am experiencing, then to work through it on the course by myself.

I do not, and will not state that repeatedly visiting a Pro is wrong. If that is how you learn, then more power to you. But I don't learn efficiently using that method. I learn most efficiently in an evolutionary way, by attempting to understand the dynamics myself, and then applying those dynamics on the course. As I stated previously, classroom learning was never my strong suit, but if you ask me to learn something and leave me to it, I will learn.

 

[Hobbit]

Still Confused.com with this feel golf. As I have stated earlier no one would want to have lots of swing thoughts or swing the club in a 'Robotic' manner when playing golf. Surely the "robotic' phrase relates to a learning method whereby the student is taught positions to move the club through and get the body into. A learning process not a playing concept.

People say they are a feel player, so what exactly does that mean? If we are mostly abandoning swing thoughts and trusting the swing we have learned then are we all 'Feel' players. 'Feel' relates to the sense of touch, the sensations the hands experience when contacting objects. It also relates to 'Feelings, or our emotions.

So! what do we mean when we say we are 'Feel Players' ?

I think you might just be onto something... everyone one learns something from a book/lesson/experience. Quite how much a player buys into any given method... My only swing thought is related to rhythm, "slowly back."

And today, being a touchy feely player. 2 under gross against a CSS that was 1 under and a cut to 4.4.