Right to repair

[Tashyboy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57665593

just read this and, the bit that opened my eyes was that manufacturers make things that deliberately break down to “ encourage” us to buy new.

How have they got away with that. ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Collusion. It's pretty scandalous but let's hope that this is a step in the right direction.

 

[Slab]

Remember the days we got stuff repaired at that little shop just off the high st that sold belts for vacuum cleaners, elements for kettles and a thousand other parts for home appliances
Your fridge, electrical stuff was all repairable instead of being dumped at first fault, jeez event the bedside clock/radio got repaired, no need to upgrade it for a few years

Other then large items like boilers, kitchen white goods, what was the last electrical thing you had repaired

 

[Beedee]

At the risk of coming across as rather negative - this new law gives us the right to get spare parts. It doesn't say anywhere that the parts must be cheap. Add in the cost of an engineer. Or add in the cost of an engineer to fix it properly after the diy fix has botched it (we live in a country where only a third of people are confident they can assemble flatpack furniture), and time off work to wait in for an engineer. Then add in the extra price hike that the manufacturers will start adding to cover the costs of stocking every part for every appliance they sell for the next 10 years after it's sold. I don't see this being a great saving for the vast majority of customers.

 

[Tashyboy]

I posted this coz am sure i saw a thread on here the other day where a plastic cog had broken and it should of been metal. Reminded me of a part that breaks that shouldn't. Why should someone have to buy a new machine coz of broken plastic bit.

 

[jim8flog]

Ditto to Beedee

I have a fault with 2 year old washing machine, something in between the inner and outer drum. I could do it myself but having looked at how do it on YouTube I will put up with it until the machine breaks down. If I got an engineer in the cost would be than that for a new machine, in my estimation. The alternative is to buy a new drum assemble which is nearly as much as new complete machine.

I will often attempt repairs myself but one of the biggest obstacles is not the cost or availability of spares just the method of manufacture and assembly is often done on machines and it requires a jig to disassemble reassemble them e.g multiple lugs that all need pressing in at the same time.

 

[SocketRocket]

Thinking back I used to repair many things. Used to put new pumps in washing machines, just about anything on a car, soldering, etc.

Built in obsolescence has been with us for years though.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Perhaps if the initial purchase cost of the product was higher the consumer would be more keen to look at getting things repaired and the build quality could be greater. But as it is, we the consumer, want things as cheap as possible and the manufacturer then builds the products in as cheap as possible a way to meet that demand.
But then, since we now live a mindset of new phone every 2 years, new car on lease every 3 yrs is it no surprise we apply the same thought process to everything else in our life

 

[Hobbit]

I did a piece for my A-Levels way back in the 70’s, “is planned obsolescence right?” If a manufacturer has a plastic cog that will only last 4 years in a device but the device is cheaper than many competitor’s products, making it attractive to buy, should he change the cog for a metal one, pushing the price up and making it unattractive to buy? A bit simplistic but is it planned obsolescence or is it retaining a competitive edge?

Another aspect, which golfers are prey to is the redesign/this year’s model which flies farther, stops quicker and is easier to hit. How many people buy the new version of anything and see no change in performance? Some people buy into the marketing hype, whilst others love new shiny toys.

 

[CliveW]

It thought it was well known that white goods have a built-in obsolescence of four years since the 1980s. After all golf clubs only have a life span of two years!

 

[Slab]

The cost of an entry level washing machine is the same today as it was in the 80's, something's gotta give

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It thought it was well known that white goods have a built-in obsolescence of four years since the 1980s. After all golf clubs only have a life span of two years!

Another urban myth

 

[Blue in Munich]

At the risk of coming across as rather negative - this new law gives us the right to get spare parts. It doesn't say anywhere that the parts must be cheap. Add in the cost of an engineer. Or add in the cost of an engineer to fix it properly after the diy fix has botched it (we live in a country where only a third of people are confident they can assemble flatpack furniture), and time off work to wait in for an engineer. Then add in the extra price hike that the manufacturers will start adding to cover the costs of stocking every part for every appliance they sell for the next 10 years after it's sold. I don't see this being a great saving for the vast majority of customers.

This. Transformer for the LED lights in the cooker hood + engineer was £185 last month. Had it been the LED's it would have been nearly £300; on a £350 cooker hood.

The only good thing about the current crisis is that working from home meant no loss of leave for the engineer visit.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I guess a lot comes down to the relative affordability of much of what we buy. Back in the day a lot of stuff we had fixed was relatively expensive new compared with the cost of fixing. These days so much of what we buy is relatively cheap, and so fixing becomes a relatively less than cost effective answer. Add in that an aspect of the cheapness will be in the manufacturing process and component materials. In designing something to be cheap to manufacture you may find that that makes it inherently difficult or impossible to fix. Choices.

 

[SocketRocket]

I guess a lot comes down to the relative affordability of much of what we buy. Back in the day a lot of stuff we had fixed was relatively expensive new compared with the cost of fixing. These days so much of what we buy is relatively cheap, and so fixing becomes a relatively less than cost effective answer. Add in that an aspect of the cheapness will be in the manufacturing process and component materials. In designing something to be cheap to manufacture you may find that that makes it inherently difficult or impossible to fix. Choices.

That's slightly different to building in obsolescence. Designing components so they will fail after a certain usage is not good for the environment.

 

[williamalex1]

I posted this coz am sure i saw a thread on here the other day where a plastic cog had broken and it should of been metal. Reminded me of a part that breaks that shouldn't. Why should someone have to buy a new machine coz of broken plastic bit.

That part would still have broken, even it had been metal. Constant rubbing against debris would eventually wear it away anyway.

 

[SocketRocket]

That part would still have broken, even it had been metal. Constant rubbing against debris would eventually wear it away anyway.

Not necessarily as quick. If a gear wheel was made of a material better suited to minimise wear it could add considerable more component life. It may be more expensive to manufacture but if it was the component that was most likely to end the serviceable life of a machine then that small increased cost would be well worth paying. Think if it was a component in an aero engine.

 

[williamalex1]

I did say " eventually ", small metal fan impellers are still very flimsy.
Making them stronger = heavier = bigger motor required.
Stopping the debris build up would stop the wear and tear.

 

[Foxholer]

That's slightly different to building in obsolescence. Designing components so they will fail after a certain usage is not good for the environment.

H'mm! Is it REALLY that? Or is it 'using components that are likely to fail after a certain (preumably, out of warranty) amount of use'(again presumably,) because they are cheaper'. There are definitely reasons why manufacturers might apply the latter and that may be reasonable short-term, but, for those that value it. reputational damage is likely to be considerable! My (ex)FIL made a very decent career by stripping whitegoods, replacing 'faulty'/short life expectancy parts with upgraded components and selling them as reconditioned - as well as repairing (with warranty) those where 'on-site' repairs were viable. Again, it's a case of putting reputation for 'quality' on the line. I've known of, and experienced, several cases where the manufacturer has performed the work gratis, purely because that reputation is extremely important to them. Also others where the (likely) overall cost of a proper fix out-weighs the value the manufacturer places on their reputation - at least compared to that of competitors!

 

[Foxholer]

Not necessarily as quick. If a gear wheel was made of a material better suited to minimise wear it could add considerable more component life. It may be more expensive to manufacture but if it was the component that was most likely to end the serviceable life of a machine then that small increased cost would be well worth paying. Think if it was a component in an aero engine.

I'm certain you know, from your own career, it's all about balancing several variables...Cost (initial and long-term), Quality, Performance being the main ones! Servicing/Replacement schedules can be (and at least in the case of the Aero industry ARE) organised to optimise/balance those criteria according to the customer's requirements - even/especially with the likes of aero engines.
FWIW...How often do you change your vehicle's engine oil - and with what grade/price oil?
Edit...And a BTW...There's an implication in this thread (that I'm not sure is correct) that certain components are used BECAUSE they are likely to 'end the serviceable life' of a product'! I'm pretty certain that would not happen in the Aeronautics industry!