Redundancy Advice

[Crazyface]

I'm going through the redundancy process at the mo. The company rules say I've to have three meetings. (I've had two). Each time with my boss, who has to come over to our site, and some woman from personnel on speaker phone. In both meetings the personnel woman stressed I wasn't being made redundant!!!!! (I knew I was). Procedures you see.... But the thing is I've been paid for Jan - Feb and not been in!!!! Now March wages were due and I've been paid my redundancy money. Apparently it' is best to do this before the new tax year. But the thing is I've not been actually told I'm being made redundant yet!!!! I've spoken to my boss on Friday on the phone and he thought we had done the third meeting. We haven't. I'm now having to go to meet him on Monday morning to, well basically sign up the paperwork for the last meeting. I'm expecting him to try and back date the paperwork. So my questions are :-

1. Should I allow him to back date the paperwork on a legal document?
2. Would it be cheeky of me to demand March wages, seeing I've not actually been told I'm redundant yet?
3. Any other advice would be appreciated...

Many thanks

CF

 

[Hacker Khan]

There are strict procedures regarding the redundancy processes which it sounds like have not been followed. No idea if they are doing you a favour by paying your redundo money now or if it is a tax thing for them. Someone more qualified may be able to answer that one.

Suppose it depends how much you want to fight this, especially bearing in mind the inevitable chaos that will be coming along to many companies and industries soon which may mean redundo packages may not be so generous, if indeed it is generous now. Might be worth taking the money and running whilst your employers still have some, but difficult to say without knowing exact details/circumstances/what business you are in.

 

[Hobbit]

Speak to ACAS. Sign nothing till you have. If it’s a 9am meeting with your boss, ask to defer it till you’ve sought advice.

 

[Smasher]

I'd think how you can work it to your long term advantage. Explaining the situation to your boss will be the difference between a good and glowing reference.

 

[Crazyface]

There are strict procedures regarding the redundancy processes which it sounds like have not been followed. No idea if they are doing you a favour by paying your redundo money now or if it is a tax thing for them. Someone more qualified may be able to answer that one.

Suppose it depends how much you want to fight this, especially bearing in mind the inevitable chaos that will be coming along to many companies and industries soon which may mean redundo packages may not be so generous, if indeed it is generous now. Might be worth taking the money and running whilst your employers still have some, but difficult to say without knowing exact details/circumstances/what business you are in.

It's a massive multi national + Billion (Spanish) company. We are a just a little tiny site that is no longer in use. Money is not an issue with them. It's just can I have them over because they have not followed their own procedure?

 

[Hacker Khan]

It's a massive multi national + Billion (Spanish) company. We are a just a little tiny site that is no longer in use. Money is not an issue with them. It's just can I have them over because they have not followed their own procedure?

I'd say if they have not officially told you are redundant in a letter with a specific date you are no longer employed from then you are still employed and entitled to your wages. But again it might cost you more to get proper legal advice to get this out of them than you'd get in an extra months wages. Are others in the same boat in your office, do you have union representation?

 

[woofers]

Santander?
Redundancy pay up to £30,000 is tax free, any amount over that is taxable.
They must be able to give you the appropriate details in writing, so I would seek to get all the pertinent dates, work out the financials around that and take it from there.
The Gov website has details on redundancy notices, processes and pay.

 

[Crazyface]

I'd say if they have not officially told you are redundant in a letter with a specific date you are no longer employed from then you are still employed and entitled to your wages. But again it might cost you more to get proper legal advice to get this out of them than you'd get in an extra months wages. Are others in the same boat in your office, do you have union representation?

That's what I was thinking. No union. Only me in this situation. There was only three on site. One has taken voluntary redundancy, one is still there coz he can drive the machines required to help shut the place down and me. I've refused voluntary redundancy at both meetings. I've received notice on my redundancy calculation (if needed) in January. Nothing actually official saying I WILL be made redundant or even a date given. But as I say I've been paid out. It's all very strange, and possibly very wrong.

 

[GG26]

Santander?
Redundancy pay up to £30,000 is tax free, any amount over that is taxable.
They must be able to give you the appropriate details in writing, so I would seek to get all the pertinent dates, work out the financials around that and take it from there.
The Gov website has details on redundancy notices, processes and pay.

Up to £30,000 can be tax free, but its a common misconception that this is automatic. If any payment is contractual, for instance, it will be regarded as taxable income. An example, of this would be where payment in lieu of notice is paid and it is stated that the employer can do this in your employment contract.

 

[Crazyface]

Stay on track. I've only been paid out £6K. I'm part time. Focus on March wages and have they followed procedure.....even if I've not been actually at work for two months.

 

[Crazyface]

"Please find attached, as requested, a copy of what your redundancy figures would be in the event of you being made redundant."


Extract from the e mail from personnel. I've received nothing to say I'm being made redundant.

What if they ask me to sign anything back dated?

 

[Maninblack4612]

I'm going through the redundancy process at the mo. The company rules say I've to have three meetings. (I've had two). Each time with my boss, who has to come over to our site, and some woman from personnel on speaker phone. In both meetings the personnel woman stressed I wasn't being made redundant!!!!! (I knew I was). Procedures you see.... But the thing is I've been paid for Jan - Feb and not been in!!!! Now March wages were due and I've been paid my redundancy money. Apparently it' is best to do this before the new tax year. But the thing is I've not been actually told I'm being made redundant yet!!!! I've spoken to my boss on Friday on the phone and he thought we had done the third meeting. We haven't. I'm now having to go to meet him on Monday morning to, well basically sign up the paperwork for the last meeting. I'm expecting him to try and back date the paperwork. So my questions are :-

1. Should I allow him to back date the paperwork on a legal document?
2. Would it be cheeky of me to demand March wages, seeing I've not actually been told I'm redundant yet?
3. Any other advice would be appreciated...

Many thanks

CF

Take advice, I think that the opposite is true. Was for me.

 

[Foxholer]

Take advice, I think that the opposite is true. Was for me.

Indeed, this is what you should do!
You should also ask 'Who is it best for?'! I suspect that it's best for them, but may not (or may) be best for you depending how the 'redundancy payment' is calculated.
Here's a link that points out some of the pitfalls. But you should obtain advice based on your specific situation. https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/do-you-have-to-pay-tax-on-your-redundancy-payout

 

[drdel]

As Hobbit said - Do nothing until you've spoke to ACAS. If you have not been fully and formally notified of being made redundant then you are not.

'Redundancy' is a legal process that is either right or wrong; do not sign paperwork that has errors you become complicit in any fallout. The Company will be looking after their interests - not yours.

 

[Mudball]

If nothing has been formally given in writing - irrespective of if you are or are not in the process (as per the HR lady), then it is business as usual. Seek ACAS help.

Re Tax.. not sure how that is being handled. I suspect they mean doing it before March end is beneficial for them not you. if your company tax year is March, then they are probably looking to capitalise the cost into their 2019/20 spend. If so, then this puts you in an advantageous position that they would want to settle before the end of March. Negotiate hard. The company does not care, neither should you.. More importantly, pl DONT take it as a reflection of your personal worth or value. This is just a number game

.. as prev mentioned, seek professional help.

 

[SocketRocket]

I've been away from things like this for a while but it seems to me they have decided they want to make you redundant but have to go through the correct process first, this is why they are using terms like "in the event of you being made redundant." they are not actually confirming it. Normally a company has to go through a process of consultation meetings with all Employees in the department to verify who would be most likely to be made redundant and whether there were suitable volunteers. If they havent followed the procedure then you could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. I do second the suggestion you have a talk to ACAS as soon as possible.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Seek legal/professional advice and sign nothing

 

[GaryK]

Has the term "Consultation Period" been used at all?
I'm certainly no expert, but was made redundant back in 2017 and here's a brief bit about how it panned out for me.
I was informed that my role was at risk and that I was on a 1 month consultancy period where they lead you to believe that they are doing everything possible to avoid the innevitable.
They gave me a list of all current vacancies within the company at the time (none were suitable, so I didn't bother applying for any).
I was told that I didn't have to work during the consultation period, but I would still get paid (obviously I chose to not work).
On top of that I had been with the company for 21 years, so 3 month notice period (again, not expected to work).
So, I ended up having 4 months off whilst being paid as I was still technically an employee of the company.
After that, I was officially redundant with a nice payout which the first £30K was tax free.
I then took time out...18 months off, doing plenty of things that I enjoy (mainly playing golf).
After 18 months I found another job and was pleasantly surprised that my first couple of paypackets were tax free.
And the jackpot hit when I got a nice letter from the tax man, saying that I was due a not insignificant rebate.

Anyway, best of luck - I hope everything pans out for you, that you are fairly treated and that you can move on to greener pastures.

 

[harpo_72]

Has the term "Consultation Period" been used at all?
I'm certainly no expert, but was made redundant back in 2017 and here's a brief bit about how it panned out for me.
I was informed that my role was at risk and that I was on a 1 month consultancy period where they lead you to believe that they are doing everything possible to avoid the innevitable.
They gave me a list of all current vacancies within the company at the time (none were suitable, so I didn't bother applying for any).
I was told that I didn't have to work during the consultation period, but I would still get paid (obviously I chose to not work).
On top of that I had been with the company for 21 years, so 3 month notice period (again, not expected to work).
So, I ended up having 4 months off whilst being paid as I was still technically an employee of the company.
After that, I was officially redundant with a nice payout which the first £30K was tax free.
I then took time out...18 months off, doing plenty of things that I enjoy (mainly playing golf).
After 18 months I found another job and was pleasantly surprised that my first couple of paypackets were tax free.
And the jackpot hit when I got a nice letter from the tax man, saying that I was due a not insignificant rebate.

Anyway, best of luck - I hope everything pans out for you, that you are fairly treated and that you can move on to greener pastures.

Yes I went through a similar process twice in 4 months.
I got redistributed the first time after passing a technical interview and was under a trial period for 4 weeks as outlined by my letter of acceptance. 11 weeks later they told me I had failed the trial period. I was then put back on the redundancy list and asked to look at the available roles and select those. There was nothing and after the first trial issue where they were incorrectly applying the process I wasn’t keen to stay with them. Thankfully the 11 weeks I was in the 2nd role tipped me over a 5 year point and doubled my payout.
I have a tribunal set up later this year as they broke the employee laws 3 times and were not admitting liability or following correct process.
Not sure how that will pan out but check your home insurance and see if you have some legal cover if you choose to go that route. ACAS are there to help but employment law is pretty useless unless you have a gender or a racial dispute and the big companies know this, so they take the mick.

Good luck, make notes keep up with the details and be level headed.

 

[jim8flog]

The effect to you re tax is obvious.

If it is paid this tax year it will be in addition to all earnings for the year.

If paid next tax year the likely hood is that you may well be unemployed for some time and therefore could result in less tax being due in the next financial year.