Rabbit scrappings relief

[VVega]

a bit of a ” know all” and looked shocked when I told him there is no such thing now as relief from rabbit scraping.

Is that the case? Thought it falls under abnormal ground and in fact it’s wider defined now as “an animal hole”?

 

[Colin L]

You may take relief from interference by an animal hole expect in a penalty area. It no longer needs to be a burrowing animal. My zoological understanding is a rabbit is an animal and so, yes, what you say is the case. The Definition of Abnormal Course Condition includes an animal hole as one of the four defined conditions.
https://www.randa.org/rog/definitions#definition-A

 

[VVega]

You may take relief from interference by an animal hole expect in a penalty area. It no longer needs to be a burrowing animal. My zoological understanding is a rabbit is an animal and so, yes, what you say is the case. The Definition of Abnormal Course Condition includes an animal hole as one of the four defined conditions.
https://www.randa.org/rog/definitions#definition-A

That’s what I thought, hence was puzzled to read the quote in my OP.

 

[jim8flog]

This brought back a memory.

Our committee tried to bring in a rule denying relief from a rabbit hole interfering with stance .

A few were a bit taken aback when I told them the rules do not allow relief from rabbit holes per se. If they wanted such a local ruling they would have to have one which denied relief by stance from all burrowing animal holes (we have lots of badger holes on the course).

It was how I ended up being very involved with all things golfing rules at the club.

 

[Imurg]

When does a scrape become a hole?

 

[jim8flog]

When does a scrape become a hole?

It's in the defintions

Animal Hole
Any hole dug in the ground by an animal, except for holes dug by animals that are also defined as loose impediments (such as worms or insects).
The term animal hole includes:
• The loose material the animal dug out of the hole,
• Any worn-down track or trail leading into the hole, and
• Any area on the ground pushed up or altered as a result of the animal digging the hole underground.

In my mind the scrape is a hole as the depth of a hole is not defined.

 

[salfordlad]

When does a scrape become a hole?

I agree with Jim. If a 'scrape' by an animal has broken the surface of the ground, it is, by definition, an animal hole and an ACC. If the animal action has merely messed around the vegetation, then not a hole. And a scrape by the human animal in their spanking new Footjoys doesn't cut the relief mustard either, although it can be repaired on the putting green (13.1c(2)) or dealt with in very limited circumstances off the putting green (8.1d).

 

[jim8flog]

I agree with Jim. If a 'scrape' by an animal has broken the surface of the ground, it is, by definition, an animal hole and an ACC. If the animal action has merely messed around the vegetation, then not a hole. And a scrape by the human animal in their spanking new Footjoys doesn't cut the relief mustard either, although it can be repaired on the putting green (13.1c(2)) or dealt with in very limited circumstances off the putting green (8.1d).

In golfing terms by definition a human is not an animal

Animal
Any living member of the animal kingdom (other than humans), including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates (such as worms, insects, spiders and crustaceans).

So if you find someone has taken relief on the course you do not get free relief

 

[Pants]

So if you find someone has taken relief on the course you do not get free relief

And don't pick and eat any blackberrys below waist level.

 

[3offTheTee]

Not quite the same but rather than start a new thread we have several moles on our course. After a while, perhaps a month, the mole hills become well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil. Am I correct in stating relief is still available?

Also I may have been responsible for the OP quoting a previous post of mine. My apologies as he was asking for relief from rabbit droppings not scrapings.

 

[rulefan]

Not quite the same but rather than start a new thread we have several moles on our course. After a while, perhaps a month, the mole hills become well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil. Am I correct in stating relief is still available?

Yes. Providing the area(s) are identifiable as:
• The loose material the animal dug out of the hole,
• Any area on the ground pushed up or altered as a result of the animal digging the hole underground.

 

[williamalex1]

What about rabbit droppings?.
I suspect a FC of substituting dried dog food .

 

[rulie]

Not quite the same but rather than start a new thread we have several moles on our course. After a while, perhaps a month, the mole hills become well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil. Am I correct in stating relief is still available?

Whether or not there is free relief in that situation will be a judgement call by the referee - it's not automatic after a month and several mowings

 

[salfordlad]

Yes. Providing the area(s) are identifiable as:
• The loose material the animal dug out of the hole,
• Any area on the ground pushed up or altered as a result of the animal digging the hole underground.

I don't believe "well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil" cuts it as ACC. Once that ground is back level with no surface irregularity, no loose material and no hole I can't see how it retains ACC status - it is just bare ground like any other bare ground on the course. IMO, "altered" is not intended to cover an unspecified time extension beyond when the ground has been returned to level. Of course, the Committee could mark any bare areas it wishes to provide relief from.

 

[Colin L]

I don't believe "well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil" cuts it as ACC. Once that ground is back level with no surface irregularity, no loose material and no hole I can't see how it retains ACC status - it is just bare ground like any other bare ground on the course. IMO, "altered" is not intended to cover an unspecified time extension beyond when the ground has been returned to level. Of course, the Committee could mark any bare areas it wishes to provide relief from.

Glad you think so as I once refused relief from a flattened, ex-molehill.

 

[backwoodsman]

Not quite the same but rather than start a new thread we have several moles on our course. After a while, perhaps a month, the mole hills become well trodden and completely flat with just compacted soil. Am I correct in stating relief is still available?

Whilst I am not a rules expert, I would say no - as to me, it doesn't fit the expanded description of animal hole (as given in the definitions). The pile of loose material (ie the molehill itself) is a result of the animal digging the hole underground. But the subsequent flattening/compaction is not - that is the result of other things like trampling, mowing, weather etc

 

[jim8flog]

Yes. Providing the area(s) are identifiable as:
• The loose material the animal dug out of the hole,
• Any area on the ground pushed up or altered as a result of the animal digging the hole underground.

One of the changes over the years.

I have memory from around 30 years ago that the rules said back then ( may have been a decision) once the mound had been flattened relief was no longer available.

 

[clubchamp98]

Glad you think so as I once refused relief from a flattened, ex-molehill.

When does a molehill become an ex molehill ?
We have several at ours ,although they have been flattened by mowers they are still not completely level with the surrounding area.
Is there a cut off height.

 

[Foxholer]

When does a molehill become an ex molehill ?
We have several at ours ,although they have been flattened by mowers they are still not completely level with the surrounding area.
Is there a cut off height.

My view is that if they have been flattened, even if not to ground level, than no relief. If the ball ends up round the circumference, between mh and normal ground, that's just tough - like ending up sitting on a divot.

 

[3offTheTee]

Well the jury seems to be undecided on this one with differing opinions.

I really need WJE Mather to be the arbitrator!

I have guessed to myself which way he will go.