R&A Policy on Transgender

[Arthur Wedge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1867176472592707633

Looks like the R&A have followed the same path as the USGA

 

[Dunesman]

It looks a reasonable middle ground on a sensitive topic. So good that a line is drawn and there is a clear policy. In many aspects of society, trans can be accomodated to some degree, but sport is one of the interfaces where the reality that gender cannot really be changed has to be accepted and barriers of some variety left in place.

 

[Billysboots]

This is absolutely correct, in my view.

Taking this to an absolute extreme, and as ridiculous as it sounds, can you imagine BDC transitioning and playing on the LPGA Tour?

Sorry, but there is a reason other sports have gone down this route, and given the advantage that distance off the tee gives in some tournaments, although granted not all, golf should be no different.

 

[Orikoru]

It looks a reasonable middle ground on a sensitive topic. So good that a line is drawn and there is a clear policy. In many aspects of society, trans can be accomodated to some degree, but sport is one of the interfaces where the reality that gender cannot really be changed has to be accepted and barriers of some variety left in place.

Yeah, well put. It's just science at the end of the day.

 

[Eesat 90210]

Ladies Long Drive Contest

 

[louise_a]

It is good that it only applies to elite golf and not club golf.

 

[rulie]

It is good that it only applies to elite golf and not club golf.

It's a policy for the R&A events - it could also be a template for any other Committees to develop/implement their desired policy.

 

[KenL]

It is good that it only applies to elite golf and not club golf.

What should the policy be in club golf?

 

[rudebhoy]

What should the policy be in club golf?

There is no need for anything specific, the handicap system should counter any physical advantage a transgender player might have.

 

[NearHull]

There is no need for anything specific, the handicap system should counter any physical advantage a transgender player might have.

That was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. I think you are right.

 

[Dunesman]

There is no need for anything specific, the handicap system should counter any physical advantage a transgender player might have.

As an R&A policy, it will probably trickle down to club level. It might be the next thing on EG's radar, with threats of excummunication for clubs who dont implement it.
And, handicaps dont fully address the problem. Clubs also have non handicapped competition and prizes. Mens handicaps are on average 14 shots lower, and trans would probably be jumping the pecking order in ladies competition or access to high level competition, so the same limits as the R&A have set out should be relevant to clubs as well. Even having a 14 shot boost to ones handicap misrepresents their real golf level to the detriment of the real/true/original (whats the pc term here ?) women.

 

[rudebhoy]

As an R&A policy, it will probably trickle down to club level. It might be the next thing on EG's radar, with threats of excummunication for clubs who dont implement it.
And, handicaps dont fully address the problem. Clubs also have non handicapped competition and prizes. Mens handicaps are on average 14 shots lower, and trans would probably be jumping the pecking order in ladies competition or access to high level competition, so the same limits as the R&A have set out should be relevant to clubs as well. Even having a 14 shot boost to ones handicap misrepresents their real golf level to the detriment of the real/true/original (whats the pc term here ?) women.

So don’t allow transgender players to enter non handicapped competitions. Such comps are relatively few and far between so not a massive impact. I don’t really buy your other point about the 14 shot boost, you will always have players whose current mark doesn’t accurately reflect their game, whether they are rapidly improving or protecting their handicap. The handicap system isn’t foolproof, but it’s the best we’ve got, and good enough for club players imo.

 

[sunshine]

As an R&A policy, it will probably trickle down to club level. It might be the next thing on EG's radar, with threats of excummunication for clubs who dont implement it.
And, handicaps dont fully address the problem. Clubs also have non handicapped competition and prizes. Mens handicaps are on average 14 shots lower, and trans would probably be jumping the pecking order in ladies competition or access to high level competition, so the same limits as the R&A have set out should be relevant to clubs as well. Even having a 14 shot boost to ones handicap misrepresents their real golf level to the detriment of the real/true/original (whats the pc term here ?) women.

You’re taking the stat about 14 shots average across the whole population and erroneously applying it to an individual. Stats don’t work that way.

In reality, how many golf clubs have a “problem” with transgender players cleaning up all the club trophies? Zero I imagine.

 

[Dunesman]

So don’t allow transgender players to enter non handicapped competitions. Such comps are relatively few and far between so not a massive impact.

Yes, that would be implementing the R&A policy at club level, which I woyld say will come.

I don’t really buy your other point about the 14 shot boost, you will always have players whose current mark doesn’t accurately reflect their game, whether they are rapidly improving or protecting their handicap. The handicap system isn’t foolproof, but it’s the best we’ve got, and good enough for club players imo.

It is that trans give a bump that is from a different reference point. Take a man with a 10 handicap. Better than average but nothing very exceptional.
If they then play from ladies tees with ladies handicap reference, it might become scratch for example. So OK as you say for handicapped competitions. But it is artifucally overstating their ability at the game of golf to consider tyem scratch, and will give them access to select high level competitions that natural ladies might feel agrieved with.

 

[Dunesman]

You’re taking the stat about 14 shots average across the whole population and erroneously applying it to an individual. Stats don’t work that way.

In reality, how many golf clubs have a “problem” with transgender players cleaning up all the club trophies? Zero I imagine.

Oh, I agree. But the principle is there, and shouldnt be.
True, very few to zero clubs, but that doesnt make it OK. If there is one at all, it is an injustice.

 

[sunshine]

Yes, that would be implementing the R&A policy at club level, which I woyld say will come.




It is that trans give a bump that is from a different reference point. Take a man with a 10 handicap. Better than average but nothing very exceptional.
If they then play from ladies tees with ladies handicap reference, it might become scratch for example. So OK as you say for handicapped competitions. But it is artifucally overstating their ability at the game of golf to consider tyem scratch, and will give them access to select high level competitions that natural ladies might feel agrieved with.

But it’s not artificially overstating their ability if that person is able to play to scratch from the forward tees.

I don’t think people transition from male to female in order to win the club championship or get access to county competitions. It’s not really a problem.

 

[Dunesman]

But it’s not artificially overstating their ability if that person is able to play to scratch from the forward tees.

Its not just the tee change is it not ? Their handicap would be referenced to a genetic lady and distances, rather than their real gender of male. Or maybe I am misunderstanding that. If not, I suppose that gives an alternative solution to the handicapping, where trans people could continue to be referenced to their original gender. But while technically possibly a good solution, its probably too messy and would be unacceptable to some trans to have such a hybrid solution.

 

[Dunesman]

I don’t think people transition from male to female in order to win the club championship or get access to county competitions. It’s not really a problem.

Sure, nobody is doing to win golf tournaments. But if transitioning happens, and it seems to be becomming more prevalent, then its fair and sensible to have a safeguard in place.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes, that would be implementing the R&A policy at club level, which I woyld say will come.




It is that trans give a bump that is from a different reference point. Take a man with a 10 handicap. Better than average but nothing very exceptional.
If they then play from ladies tees with ladies handicap reference, it might become scratch for example. So OK as you say for handicapped competitions. But it is artifucally overstating their ability at the game of golf to consider tyem scratch, and will give them access to select high level competitions that natural ladies might feel agrieved with.

Yes I agree ,Most men who go to the red tees at ours get a three shot difference.
So 10 shots is not going to happen imo.

Just playing off shorter tees dosnt cure short game faults or putting .

It’s a problem that’s not easy to solve in scratch comps but handicap comps should sort itself out.

 

[sunshine]

Its not just the tee change is it not ? Their handicap would be referenced to a genetic lady and distances, rather than their real gender of male. Or maybe I am misunderstanding that. If not, I suppose that gives an alternative solution to the handicapping, where trans people could continue to be referenced to their original gender. But while technically possibly a good solution, its probably too messy and would be unacceptable to some trans to have such a hybrid solution.

I don’t really understand your point. Handicap is based on the number of strokes you take, not how far you hit it.