Question on Ball at Rest Moving

[Slab]

I’ve had two instances of a ball at rest moving in the last week, are they both the same result re penalty/replacing etc?

First is easy (I think) ball at rest just off fairway, ground condition is packed sand (not a hazard) my stance is on the fairway grass but I’ve addressed the ball (did not ground club & had not started back-swing) ball moved about an inch

Second is my ball on raised green (no players on green) my ball is roughly 6ft on and 6ft from pin and as I walk along the the side of the sloped bank of the green so roughly 12 ft away from my ball, I take a wide step to clear my FC’s line of his chip (so a heavier footfall than normal walking pace) at that time my ball moves about an inch

No wind on either day

Thanks

 

[MashieNiblick]

You have to bear in mind there are 2 elements to this situation covered by different parts of Rule 18.

18-2a covers situations where the player causes the ball to move. 18-2b covers the ball moving after you have addressed it and in that case you are deemed to have moved it unless "it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move".

The definition of addressing the ball is "A player has "addressed the ball" when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance."

In the first case as you didn't ground your club you hadn't actually addressed the ball under the Rules.

So it is 18-2a which applies in which case the question is whether you caused the ball the move. Given the circumstances described, unless you were moving your feet a lot when to took your stance I'd be inclined to say it probably wasn't.

Same in the second case. 12ft is a long way and unless you were stamping about like the Pontypool front row doing the can-can I think it is unlikely the movement could be attributed to you. Had it been 2 ft I think it might have been different.

Would seem that in both cases it was just the effect of gravity and maybe the ball resting on a bit of uneven ground.

 

[Colin L]

Just a wee addition to that. Whether you caused the ball to move is a matter of fact which you have to decide. If you decide, as MashieNiblick suggests makes sense in the situation described, that you did not not cause the ball to move, then there is no penalty and you play the ball from where it comes to rest after moving. If you decide you did cause it to move, there is a one stroke penalty and you replace the ball.

 

[CMAC]

You have to bear in mind there are 2 elements to this situation covered by different parts of Rule 18.

18-2a covers situations where the player causes the ball to move. 18-2b covers the ball moving after you have addressed it and in that case you are deemed to have moved it unless "it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move".

The definition of addressing the ball is "A player has "addressed the ball" when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance."

In the first case as you didn't ground your club you hadn't actually addressed the ball under the Rules.

So it is 18-2a which applies in which case the question is whether you caused the ball the move. Given the circumstances described, unless you were moving your feet a lot when to took your stance I'd be inclined to say it probably wasn't.

Same in the second case. 12ft is a long way and unless you were stamping about like the Pontypool front row doing the can-can I think it is unlikely the movement could be attributed to you. Had it been 2 ft I think it might have been different.

Would seem that in both cases it was just the effect of gravity and maybe the ball resting on a bit of uneven ground.

how does that apply to the club 'floaters' at address

 

[Colin L]

It simply means that if you never ground the club behind or in front of the ball, you never address the ball. So if the ball moves you cannot ever be deemed to have moved it after address. "Floaters" might, however, cause their ball to move just like anyone else.