Putting with the flag in Greenkeepers..

[jim8flog]

I was having a discussion with our Course Manager today about hole damage and it's cause.

His view was since the rule changed to allow putting with the flag in the holes are ending up much more damaged than they used to be. He has had this discussion with quite a few other green keepers and all are reporting same.

 

[Jacko_G]

Guess he needs to change holes more frequently then.

Not noticed any deformed holes then again I usually play links golf.

 

[Imurg]

A bit of common sense will tell people that if the ball went in then it can come out.
You don't need to hold the pin out to extract the ball, you don't need to use your putter either.
Using thumb and index finger, unless your hands are gorilla size, is all that's needed.
This shouldn't damage the hole any more than if the flag was out.

 

[IanM]

Interesting... .I hadn't noticed any deterioration when playing... although I play virtually all of my golf early on Saturday on new holes.

The retired folk who play all week may have a different tale to tell!

 

[North Mimms]

I think hole damage is caused by lazy people who pull the pin out and try to flip the ball out that way

 

[jim8flog]

I play 3 days a week often one of which is late Monday morning and agreed with him that I have seen an increase in the amount of damage. We go out late Saturday morning with holes having been cut on a Friday afternoon and often you can see the damage by then.

Guess he needs to change holes more frequently then..

That is not likely where I play on time and cost basis. Too many other jobs on a Monday morning.
His view is also that to change the flag positions every day means obviously a significant increase in the old holes which do not always repair quickly where I play.

 

[patricks148]

posted about this last week and most disagreed i think even you

 

[Golfman15]

I think hole damage is caused by lazy people who pull the pin out and try to flip the ball out that way

We have had exactly the same issue and have had a polite request to avoid doing just this

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s been noticeable on pretty much every course I have played - it’s what happens when people are lazy and use the flag to try and pull the ball out of the hole.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Interesting... .I hadn't noticed any deterioration when playing... although I play virtually all of my golf early on Saturday on new holes.

The retired folk who play all week may have a different tale to tell!

I play virtually all my golf Monday to Friday and haven't noticed any increase in damage to holes.

Our pins are moved three times per week.

 

[upsidedown]

It was an issue in the Winter months and we asked our members to take more care and it's not been a problem since . Can't say I've seen it anywhere else and on 47 different courses this year so far

 

[cliveb]

It’s been noticeable on pretty much every course I have played - it’s what happens when people are lazy and use the flag to try and pull the ball out of the hole.

Surely it's time to start installing flanges at the bottom of flags, like the ones on practice greens. Then if someone pulls the flag to retrieve their ball it'll come out no problem.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Surely it's time to start installing flanges at the bottom of flags, like the ones on practice greens. Then if someone pulls the flag to retrieve their ball it'll come out no problem.

Reasonable compromise. We have a three day comp over the long weekend and so by Monday you'll definitely see some wear around the hole. We don't have too many idiots in competitive play that try and get the ball out with the flag and if I was to be pressed I'd say the majority are still having the flag out for anything around ten foot and in so the chances of damage other than wear and tear are reduced

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely it's time to start installing flanges at the bottom of flags, like the ones on practice greens. Then if someone pulls the flag to retrieve their ball it'll come out no problem.

They are only 18” high though, try putting one of them back in a high wind with a full sized flag it’s not so easy.
We had a trial and it was worse!
The hole hokey Kokey is partly to blame as some want it in some want it out.
You would think common sense would prevail for short putts but in my experience there’s very little.
Some people want the flag in from a foot.
Mostly though it’s just bad etiquette,putter in hole ,yanking ball out with flag etc ,but this has always been the case ,so why are we seeing more damage to holes ?
Imo it’s the change in the rule, there’s much more traffic around the holes.
This has had the opposite effect that was envisaged of less footfall around the holes!

 

[Tashyboy]

I think hole damage is caused by lazy people who pull the pin out and try to flip the ball out that way

Of which a PP does ☹️

 

[cliveb]

They are only 18” high though, try putting one of them back in a high wind with a full sized flag it’s not so easy.

Ah, good point.

We had a trial and it was worse!

If people have tried it and it didn't work, I withdraw my suggestion. Can't argue with hard evidence!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They are only 18” high though, try putting one of them back in a high wind with a full sized flag it’s not so easy.
We had a trial and it was worse!
The hole hokey Kokey is partly to blame as some want it in some want it out.
You would think common sense would prevail for short putts but in my experience there’s very little.
Some people want the flag in from a foot.
Mostly though it’s just bad etiquette,putter in hole ,yanking ball out with flag etc ,but this has always been the case ,so why are we seeing more damage to holes ?
Imo it’s the change in the rule, there’s much more traffic around the holes.
This has had the opposite effect that was envisaged of less footfall around the holes!

Yes - but what does common sense tell us to do. You suggest that the flag should be out for putts of a foot. But if you putt to a foot and the flag is in what is the common sense thing to do? Common sense tells us - 'it all depends'

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes - but what does common sense tell us to do. You suggest that the flag should be out for putts of a foot. But if you putt to a foot and the flag is in what is the common sense thing to do? Common sense tells us - 'it all depends'

So you are a foot away but can’t finish off because you will stand on another players line .
All put out then it’s your turn from a foot and you want the flag put back in.
To me there’s no common sense there .
But yes it does depend on the circumstances.
But the flag is more in and out than it used to be and holes are getting damaged that’s what the thread is about.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ah, good point.

If people have tried it and it didn't work, I withdraw my suggestion. Can't argue with hard evidence!

We play parkland golf and the greens are fantastic but you can see the traffic around the holes when the sun is low.
Actually getting the flange centred so it dosnt touch the hole was very difficult.
It had the effect of rounding the hole edge off so balls close fell in ,rather like the fall on a sink.

 

[Jacko_G]

I've still to witness this hokey cokey thing that people talk about, a bit of communication as you get to the green eases any confusion.

I was closest to the pin on Sunday but had a steep 8 foot downhill putt. The other two were 20 foot away and wanted the flag out.

I simply putted first and removed the flag.

It's not exactly difficult.