public sector pay protests

[Ethan]

they dont want to change jobs. They want fair recognition for the job that they already do. Is that not what you want? Or do you change job every year?

this glib recital of the old "change jobs if you don't like it" is particularly pathetic and shows no recognition of either the job market or jobs which could be considered a "calling". It also plays particularly well into the hands of the Right Wing Political Establishment who are particularly fond of not practising what they preach.

Actually, many doctors, particularly GPs do want to change jobs, to either the same job in Oz/NZ, no job at all (retire early) or reduce their hours. They are not mainly motivated by salary, but getting screwed on salary and pension when the demands (both in quantity and nature) are increasing exponentially is adding insult to injury.

 

[hovis]

Being off for three days isn't a bad deal at all when you consider most have just the two off

If your talking about most then most dont work 13hour shifts

 

[bluewolf]

I think pay rises should not be expected and taken as a bonus if one is awarded!

this is regardless of sector etc. If my cost of living goes up and no pay rise then I cut back on the luxuries to afford the necesseties.

Already cut back on mobile, car and sat tv (ok I get it free working for sky). I shop wisely and try not to splash out on things I want but dont need.

live to your means, if that involves cutting back then do so!

I bet John Ball and the rest of the leaders of the peasants revolt are chuffed to bits by your attitiude... "Please Sir, whip me Sir, can I bring my 8 year old to work Sir.."

Thank God there aren't too many wanabee Serfs like you around..

 

[hovis]

How much time do you spend sleeping on those shifts?

I work at a busy station so rarely get to sleep. Also depends on your boss. I work with a top bloke who wouldn't mind me dozzing off infront of my computer. I can only speak for Staffordshire when i say sleeping is not accepted

 

[jp5]

I think pay rises should not be expected and taken as a bonus if one is awarded!

this is regardless of sector etc. If my cost of living goes up and no pay rise then I cut back on the luxuries to afford the necesseties.

Already cut back on mobile, car and sat tv (ok I get it free working for sky). I shop wisely and try not to splash out on things I want but dont need.

live to your means, if that involves cutting back then do so!

If that theory were true we'd all be earning a few pounds per week.

There is a such a thing as inflation.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I work in the private sector in a small company. There is a finite pot of cash as times are hard. We can have big increases and lose a member of staff or low increases and everyone keeps their job. Thankfully our staff are not selfish and everyone chose the latter option. The public sector seems to think this does not apply to them, that cash is endless. It is not, wise up.

One area that bemuses me, totally alien to the private sector, is the incremental pay increase. No matter the situation, no matter how poor you are at your job you get an automatic pay increase because of years served. Crazy system. Apparently though incremental increases are not seen as pay rises by the unions though. Bonkers. The practices that exist in the public sector are simply not acceptable to those outside of it any more.

 

[hovis]

I work in the private sector in a small company. There is a finite pot of cash as times are hard. We can have big increases and lose a member of staff or low increases and everyone keeps their job. Thankfully our staff are not selfish and everyone chose the latter option. The public sector seems to think this does not apply to them, that cash is endless. It is not, wise up.

One area that bemuses me, totally alien to the private sector, is the incremental pay increase. No matter the situation, no matter how poor you are at your job you get an automatic pay increase because of years served. Crazy system. Apparently though incremental increases are not seen as pay rises by the unions though. Bonkers. The practices that exist in the public sector are simply not acceptable to those outside of it any more.

In part i agree with what you say but in ever single case i can think of all of my "private" sector workers have had an "inline with inflation pay rise" my wife just had a 4% par rise.
I'm not saying all private sectors are getting payrises but i have had 2% over 6 years. With the rate of inflation this is a substantial pay cut

 

[bluewolf]

One area that bemuses me, totally alien to the private sector, is the incremental pay increase. No matter the situation, no matter how poor you are at your job you get an automatic pay increase because of years served. Crazy system. Apparently though incremental increases are not seen as pay rises by the unions though. Bonkers. The practices that exist in the public sector are simply not acceptable to those outside of it any more.

I suspect that you don't really understand it though. When a Nurse (for example) moves up a band (promotion), their pay initially starts at the top of the previous band (this means that if they were already at the top of the previous band, then they wouldn't get any pay increase). Every year they then receive a pay increase. The pay increases stop when they are at the top of their new Band.

One way to look at it would be a staggered pay rise for a promotion. I suspect that is something you wouldn't be happy accepting? Here, have a promotion, but we won't be paying you any more right now. But don't worry, you'll eventually receive your pay rise when you've completed 5 years (for example) in your new job..

Apologies if I have slightly mis-represented the situation. It's not an area I'm overly familiar with..

 

[Ethan]

I work in the private sector in a small company. There is a finite pot of cash as times are hard. We can have big increases and lose a member of staff or low increases and everyone keeps their job. Thankfully our staff are not selfish and everyone chose the latter option. The public sector seems to think this does not apply to them, that cash is endless. It is not, wise up.

One area that bemuses me, totally alien to the private sector, is the incremental pay increase. No matter the situation, no matter how poor you are at your job you get an automatic pay increase because of years served. Crazy system. Apparently though incremental increases are not seen as pay rises by the unions though. Bonkers. The practices that exist in the public sector are simply not acceptable to those outside of it any more.

Let me clue you in. Incremental pay rises (or pay scales) are in place to allow the employer to start people on low salaries with the prospect of future rises. As a junior hospital doctor, I was on such pay rises and worked 80-100 hours a week, 40-60 of which were paid at less than half of the basic rate when others were getting double or triple time for the same hours. I remember one New Years Eve handing a patient over to a porter for transfer to the ward at about 10 to midnight and the porter said 'Bummer working tonight, eh, Doc? Still at least we're getting triple time'. 'No, mate', I explained, 'I'm getting 38% of my basic rate'. 'Bloody Hell, doc, I thought you lot were meant to be smart'. The pay progression partly balances that and other anomalies. Don't forget that public sector workers don't get bonuses or share options either. They get a good pension, but that is being eroded fast now too.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If your talking about most then most dont work 13hour shifts

So you do 52 hours in 4 days ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Bonuses and share options in the private sector. Blimey, where can they be found? Too much tv watching going on there. Not reality.

Private sector pay in terms of overtime etc is similar to the public sector in terms of a difference between salaried and hourly pay. I have always been salaried so any extra hours worked are because they are either expected or required on occasions as part of the job. No extra pay there. Those on hourly pay or those where overtime has been traditional, tanker drivers for example, would be similar to the porter. Similarities in both areas.

I don't buy the incremental set up. It benefits lazy workers and management. You wont find that system anywhere outside the public sector.

I wont get started on pensions. That is a slam dunker.

 

[DCB]

I started work in the Public sector many years ago. The pay may not have been top notch but the various enhancements, pension, annual leave etc were good at that time. Moved out and worked in the Private sector for twenty years and whilst the money could be good, it was a case of you go where the work is. I worked laterly for a good employer, work hard, play hard, but that soon takes it's toll. I eventually got fed up of working away, travelling early and late, missing school shows, concerts etc. Moved back into the Public sector and although the salary isn't as good, and the pension plan isn't as good as it used to be, there are still plenty of plus points for working here. Everyone makes their own choice knowing what works best for them. There's green on both sides of the fence if you look close enough

 

[bluewolf]

I started work in the Public sector many years ago. The pay may not have been top notch but the various enhancements, pension, annual leave etc were good at that time. Moved out and worked in the Private sector for twenty years and whilst the money could be good, it was a case of you go where the work is. I worked laterly for a good employer, work hard, play hard, but that soon takes it's toll. I eventually got fed up of working away, travelling early and late, missing school shows, concerts etc. Moved back into the Public sector and although the salary isn't as good, and the pension plan isn't as good as it used to be, there are still plenty of plus points for working here. Everyone makes their own choice knowing what works best for them. There's green on both sides of the fence if you look close enough

Well put Davey..

I'm tickled by the amount of people who think that the Public Sector is some sort of Utopia where every whim is catered for.. Yet most of them don't work in it.. Maybe we have a lot of masochists on this forum ..

Oh, and I work in the Private Sector. My wife works in the Public Sector.. I know where I would prefer to be, and I'm in it..

 

[Ethan]

Bonuses and share options in the private sector. Blimey, where can they be found? Too much tv watching going on there. Not reality.

Private sector pay in terms of overtime etc is similar to the public sector in terms of a difference between salaried and hourly pay. I have always been salaried so any extra hours worked are because they are either expected or required on occasions as part of the job. No extra pay there. Those on hourly pay or those where overtime has been traditional, tanker drivers for example, would be similar to the porter. Similarities in both areas.

I don't buy the incremental set up. It benefits lazy workers and management. You wont find that system anywhere outside the public sector.

I wont get started on pensions. That is a slam dunker.

I have worked in the private sector for almost 20 years. Not all jobs in the private sector get bonuses or share options, but many do. Maybe you need to get a new job if you get neither.

Tesco is the second largest employer in the FTSE list of companies. They give annual bonuses and a discounted share purchase scheme.

HSBC is the fourth largest employer and offer bonuses and discounted share purchase schemes.

Barclays, RBS, Sainsburys and Morrisons are all in the top 10 and all offer some or both of those too. As do most of the other banks, almost all the pharma companies and many retailers.

Don't buy the pay progression argument if you don't want to. But when times are good and companies are profitable, salary increases in the private sector exceed those in the public sector.

 

[bluewolf]

I have worked in the private sector for almost 20 years. Not all jobs in the private sector get bonuses or share options, but many do. Maybe you need to get a new job if you get neither.

Tesco is the second largest employer in the FTSE list of companies. They give annual bonuses and a discounted share purchase scheme.

HSBC is the fourth largest employer and offer bonuses and discounted share purchase schemes.

Barclays, RBS, Sainsburys and Morrisons are all in the top 10 and all offer some or both of those too. As do most of the other banks, almost all the pharma companies and many retailers.

Don't buy the pay progression argument if you don't want to. But when times are good and companies are profitable, salary increases in the private sector exceed those in the public sector.

Unfortunately Ethan, it appears you are trying to open a locked door...

 

[Ethan]

Unfortunately Ethan, it appears you are trying to open a locked door...

Oh, I know, but the comments are really meant for others interested in the debate.

 

[hovis]

So you do 52 hours in 4 days ?

48 hours in 4 days consisting of Two 11 hour shifts followed by two 13 hour shifts. Other stations do 4x12 hour shifts

 

[Deleted member 15344]

48 hours in 4 days consisting of Two 11 hour shifts followed by two 13 hour shifts. Other stations do 4x12 hour shifts

11 hour days and 13 hour nights ?

RAF was 10 - 14 or 12/12

14 hours was just too long

 

[hovis]

11 hour days and 13 hour nights ?

RAF was 10 - 14 or 12/12

14 hours was just too long

You've got it mate. However on the horizon soon is day shifts only for all firemen and night cover is given by retained fireman on call.
Whats scary is they only have 1 hour training per week and have 6 minutes to get into the fire station. Bet they dont tell the rate payers that bomb shell.

Personally i think the public deserve an immediate response to a 999 call. 6 minutes to get in and another 3 to get the engine out the door is outrageous

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Both the nearest Fire stations to here are on call at night from 11 I believe ?