Provisional ball

[PaulJ]

Yesterday, I played a tee shot on our 18th hole which landed beyond the lake but trickled back just into the hazard.
Unaware if I could play the ball I played a provisional from the tee and cleared the lake easily finishing some 20 yards further in the fairway.
Upon walking around the lake my original ball was in the margins of the hazard but not in the actual water.
I claimed my options were, as I had found my original ball, to either play it as it lies or pick it up and re-drop it on the line of entry into the hazard at the front of the lake and play 3 from there.
My playing partner insisted that I could also also ignore the original ball if I so chose and carry on playing the provisional.
Surely this is incorrect as my original ball was found and, with some risk, could be played.
Please advise.

 

[bobmac]

Your friend shouldn't be giving out rules advice

 

[Swango1980]

Yesterday, I played a tee shot on our 18th hole which landed beyond the lake but trickled back just into the hazard.
Unaware if I could play the ball I played a provisional from the tee and cleared the lake easily finishing some 20 yards further in the fairway.
Upon walking around the lake my original ball was in the margins of the hazard but not in the actual water.
I claimed my options were, as I had found my original ball, to either play it as it lies or pick it up and re-drop it on the line of entry into the hazard at the front of the lake and play 3 from there.
My playing partner insisted that I could also also ignore the original ball if I so chose and carry on playing the provisional.
Surely this is incorrect as my original ball was found and, with some risk, could be played.
Please advise.

You can only play a provisional ball if you think your ball may be out of bounds or lost OUTSIDE a penalty area. By the sounds of your post, this does not seem to be the case? It sounds like you hit a provisional because you might be unable to play the ball as it could be in the penalty area?

If so, you were not entitled to play a provisional. Now, unless I am missing something, as soon as you played a "provisional", that would automatically become your ball in play. It sounds like you were both wrong. You were not entitled to play the original ball, and your playing partner should have changed "could" with "should".

If the scenario was with your original that you cleared the lake, but it rolled into some heavy rough back towards the penalty area (but not in the penalty area), then you could have played a provisional as the ball may have been lost within that rough.

 

[YandaB]

We have a local rule on one of our holes that covers this. Unfortunatley the wording has not been updated since the new rule changes and it says:

Water Hazards - Playing Ball Provisionally Under Rule 26-1 The Rule
If a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) is of such size and shape and/ or located in such a position that:
(i) it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play, and (ii) if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard, the Committee have introduced a Local Rule permitting the play of a ball provisionally under 26-1. The ball is played provisionally under any of the applicable options under 26-1 or any applicable Local Rule. In such a case, if a ball is played provisionally and the original ball is in a water hazard, the player may play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally, but he may not proceed under 26-1 with regard to the original ball. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule will now be in place. If there is doubt whether a ball is in or is lost in the water hazard (specify location), the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in 26-1. If the original ball is found outside the water hazard, the player must continue play with it. If the original ball is found in the water hazard, the player may either play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally under 26-1. If the original ball is not found or identified within the five-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally. PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE: Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

I believe that this must be specifically in place for particular locations on the course rather than a general one.

Other rules experts will be along to clarify

Edit: I don't count myself as a rules expert, that last sentance could be misinterpreted!

 

[jim8flog]

The rules are slightly contradictory

Intepretation

18.3c(3)/1 – Provisional Ball Cannot Serve as Ball in Play if Original Ball Is Unplayable or in Penalty Area

A player is only allowed to play a provisional ball if he or she believes the original ball might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds. The player may not decide that a second ball he or she is going to play is both a provisional ball in case the original ball is lost outside a penalty area or out of bounds and the ball in play in case the original ball is unplayable or in a penalty area.

If the original ball is found in bounds or is known or virtually certain to be in a penalty area, the provisional ball must be abandoned.

My belief is that if a player plays a second ball when not allowed as a provisional it becomes the ball in play with appropriate penalty score added

 

[PaulJ]

You can only play a provisional ball if you think your ball may be out of bounds or lost OUTSIDE a penalty area. By the sounds of your post, this does not seem to be the case? It sounds like you hit a provisional because you might be unable to play the ball as it could be in the penalty area?

If so, you were not entitled to play a provisional. Now, unless I am missing something, as soon as you played a "provisional", that would automatically become your ball in play. It sounds like you were both wrong. You were not entitled to play the original ball, and your playing partner should have changed "could" with "should".

If the scenario was with your original that you cleared the lake, but it rolled into some heavy rough back towards the penalty area (but not in the penalty area), then you could have played a provisional as the ball may have been lost within that rough.

Thank you for the ruling

 

[PaulJ]

You can only play a provisional ball if you think your ball may be out of bounds or lost OUTSIDE a penalty area. By the sounds of your post, this does not seem to be the case? It sounds like you hit a provisional because you might be unable to play the ball as it could be in the penalty area?

If so, you were not entitled to play a provisional. Now, unless I am missing something, as soon as you played a "provisional", that would automatically become your ball in play. It sounds like you were both wrong. You were not entitled to play the original ball, and your playing partner should have changed "could" with "should".

If the scenario was with your original that you cleared the lake, but it rolled into some heavy rough back towards the penalty area (but not in the penalty area), then you could have played a provisional as the ball may have been lost within that rough.

Thank you

 

[PaulJ]

Thanks all for your responses.

 

[SammmeBee]

We have a local rule on one of our holes that covers this. Unfortunatley the wording has not been updated since the new rule changes and it says:

Water Hazards - Playing Ball Provisionally Under Rule 26-1 The Rule
If a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) is of such size and shape and/ or located in such a position that:
(i) it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play, and (ii) if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard, the Committee have introduced a Local Rule permitting the play of a ball provisionally under 26-1. The ball is played provisionally under any of the applicable options under 26-1 or any applicable Local Rule. In such a case, if a ball is played provisionally and the original ball is in a water hazard, the player may play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally, but he may not proceed under 26-1 with regard to the original ball. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule will now be in place. If there is doubt whether a ball is in or is lost in the water hazard (specify location), the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in 26-1. If the original ball is found outside the water hazard, the player must continue play with it. If the original ball is found in the water hazard, the player may either play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally under 26-1. If the original ball is not found or identified within the five-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally. PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE: Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

I believe that this must be specifically in place for particular locations on the course rather than a general one.

Other rules experts will be along to clarify

Edit: I don't count myself as a rules expert, that last sentance could be misinterpreted!

Nearly 3 years out of date……!!!

 

[rulefan]

If the original ball is found in bounds or is known or virtually certain to be in a penalty area, the provisional ball must be abandoned.

My belief is that if a player plays a second ball when not allowed as a provisional it becomes the ball in play with appropriate penalty score added

In effect the player is deemed to have played under Stroke & Distance.

 

[YandaB]

Nearly 3 years out of date……!!!

I know, I explained that in the first line. Are you trying to say that no such Local Rule exists now or just pointing out the obvious? It can be useful on our course as you cannot see if a ball has made it through the reeds and it is a long back all the way round the pond to replay the shot.

 

[SammmeBee]

Now B-3……

 

[rulefan]

Model Local Rule B-3
“If a player does not know whether his or her ball is in the penalty area [identify location], the player may play a provisional ball under Rule 18.3, which is modified in this way:

In playing the provisional ball, the player may use the stroke-and-distance relief option (see Rule 17.1d(1), the back-on-the-line relief option (see Rule 17.1d(2)) or, if it is a red penalty area, the lateral relief option (see Rule 17.1d(3)). If a dropping zone (see Model Local Rule E-1) is available for this penalty area, the player may also use that relief option.

Once the player has played a provisional ball under this Rule, he or she may not use any further options under Rule 17.1 in relation to the original ball.

In deciding when that provisional ball becomes the player’s ball in play or if it must or may be abandoned, Rule 18.3c(2) and 18.3c(3) apply except that:

• When Original Ball Is Found in Penalty Area Within Three-Minute Search Time. The player may choose either to:
  • Continue to play the original ball as it lies in the penalty area, in which case the provisional ball must not be played. All strokes with that provisional ball before it was abandoned (including strokes made and any penalty strokes solely from playing that ball) do not count, or
  • Continue to play the provisional ball in which case the original ball must not be played.
• When Original Ball Is Not Found Within Three-Minute Search Time or Is Known or Virtually Certain to Be in Penalty Area. The provisional ball becomes the player’s ball in play.

Penalty for Breach of Local Rule: General Penalty.”

 

[IanMcC]

The rules are slightly contradictory

Intepretation

18.3c(3)/1 – Provisional Ball Cannot Serve as Ball in Play if Original Ball Is Unplayable or in Penalty Area

A player is only allowed to play a provisional ball if he or she believes the original ball might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds. The player may not decide that a second ball he or she is going to play is both a provisional ball in case the original ball is lost outside a penalty area or out of bounds and the ball in play in case the original ball is unplayable or in a penalty area.

If the original ball is found in bounds or is known or virtually certain to be in a penalty area, the provisional ball must be abandoned.

My belief is that if a player plays a second ball when not allowed as a provisional it becomes the ball in play with appropriate penalty score added

I'm very confused by your assumption.
The interpretation quoted is titled 'Provisional Ball Cannot Serve as Ball in Play if Original Ball Is Unplayable or in Penalty Area', but then at the end you state the complete opposite, saying that the Provisional Ball is in play.

Surely the same rule you quote makes it clear later on:

(3) When Provisional Ball Must Be Abandoned.
When a provisional ball has not yet become the ball in play, it must be abandoned in either of these two cases:
• When Original Ball Is Found on Course Outside Penalty Area Before the End of the Three Minute Search Time. The player must play the original ball as it lies.
• When Original Ball Is Found in Penalty Area or Is Known or Virtually Certain to Be in Penalty Area. The player must either play the original ball as it lies or take penalty relief under Rule 17.1d.
In either case:
• The player must not make any more strokes with the provisional ball which is now a wrong ball (see Rule 6.3c), and
• All strokes with that provisional ball before it was abandoned (including strokes made and any penalty strokes solely from playing that ball) do not count.

To my way of thinking, the Interpretation clearly states the Provisional Ball cannot serve as the ball in play, as the original ball is found in bounds.
The Rule later states this exact scenario, and insists that the provisional ball must be abandoned.

I believe the original poster must play his original ball, either as it lies or dropping outside the Penalty Area, and abandon the provisional ball.

 

[IanMcC]

Received a reply, since deleted, that stated that because the OP knew his ball was in the hazard then his second tee shot could not be considered a provisional.
Reading the original post again, I agree. His ball 'landed beyond the lake but trickled back just into the hazard.' I suppose I could not make the mental leap that someone would claim a provisional ball in these circumstances.
If PaulJ KNEW or was 95% certain that his ball was in the Penalty Area, then he cannot hit a provisional.
As I see it, if PaulJ and his playing partner agreed that his ball MIGHT be in the Penalty Area, but may be lost outside the area, he could then hit a viable provisional ball. Finding his original ball would then abandon the provisional.
PaulJ and I have both improved our rules knowledge today. Fully explain your provisos for hitting a second ball.

 

[rulefan]

Received a reply, since deleted, that stated that because the OP knew his ball was in the hazard then his second tee shot could not be considered a provisional.

Yes, I posted that but deleted it because I wasn't confident of the solution re 'what happens next'.
I earlier posted that he had played under S&D but I've puzzled about this problem before and never been convinced with my own answer.
The niggle I have had for some time is did he in fact play from a wrong place?