Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[Deleted member 18588]

Ok cheers Paul, but I'm sure I remember seeing Frank Worthington on MOTD back in the 70's also wearing them 👍

No it was Weller.

Worthington was in the same Leicester team though.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Oh I accept the benefits, but, if someone is gonna object to someone wearing gloves because it makes you look soft. I doubt very much that they’d be ok with someone wearing tights.

Fair point . To be honest, I played club hockey for 20 years, a good chunk up in the NE where the wind cuts you in two in winter, and once the game starts I never felt the need for tights or even a t-shirt under my shirt. Once you are running your body heats you up. Pro-footballers have stands around them stopping the worst of a cold wind. They want to try flat open pitches, on top of hills etc. (I've gone 3 Yorkshiremen there, apologies ) In the modern era of football, the amount these guys run, I'm amazed they need extra layers. The only excuse could be the material used for kit, it is pretty lightweight.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nail on the head there

VVD is class there is no getting away from it but he isn't the stand out for Liverpool like you say .. stand out CB in the league yes

VVD is our stand out player - he is our most important player , VVD arriving was the key to making the next step up.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Fair point . To be honest, I played club hockey for 20 years, a good chunk up in the NE where the wind cuts you in two in winter, and once the game starts I never felt the need for tights or even a t-shirt under my shirt. Once you are running your body heats you up. Pro-footballers have stands around them stopping the worst of a cold wind. They want to try flat open pitches, on top of hills etc. (I've gone 3 Yorkshiremen there, apologies ) In the modern era of football, the amount these guys run, I'm amazed they need extra layers. The only excuse could be the material used for kit, it is pretty lightweight.

Did you have to clean out the lake and eat cold gravel, as well?

 

[Liverbirdie]

I think a lot depends on how you decide the ballon D’or. If you simply select the player that has been the most vital to a club then that’s a whole different system imo.

You could argue De Gea could have won it for 4 years if that’s the case. If you then include winning things then it becomes closer between the two at the top. Btw I’m not saying he should before anyone over reacts.

Messi scored 36 goals in 34 games in the league. Clearly a massive contribution to that win.
Liverpool conceded in over half their games in the cl, with their most impressive wins being some big scoring games in the later stages. Does that highlight VVD prowess? You could argue maybe not.

In the league he has clearly improved the defence. That can be seen simply by comparing the 6 months before and after his arrival. But they didn’t win the league, so it has less weight in its importance if we use trophies as a barometer.

I actually felt last year (and this) that Mane has been the key player. So would find it hard to pick VVD for Balon D’or simply because if you aren’t Liverpool’s most important, how can you be Europe’s.

Some fair points, but under Brendan we scored tonnes of goals and let tonnes in, keeping them out at the other end or down to a minimum can be more beneficial.

Mane is our best forward and has been for 12 months, but Alison and VVD have made a massive difference into how hard we are to beat, and VVD has also brought an overall calmness to the team, which has been absent for 20 years plus, whereas we have always scored more than our fair share of goals.

VVD IMO has made the biggest difference to us as a team, CL winner, and but for 2 points would have been a league winner also.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

VVD is an absolute joy to watch live,

Why not?

What about midfielders, or should it only just be strikers that excel?

VVD is an absolute joy to watch live, its effortless at times and theres no doubting his ability or his contribution to our team in the last 18 months. CB's dont get you on the edge of your seat like Suarez,Messi, Mane and Hendo do.

Midfielders and strikers are the bread and butter, keepers and defenders are there to make up the numbers 😉

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Did you have to clean out the lake and eat cold gravel, as well?

Before the sun came up, obviously .

Joking apart and relating to gravel, the coldest I have ever been was on top of a hill in Macclesfield, Tytherington for any locals, playing hockey on what passed for an 'all weather' pitch back in the 80's. Bascially, compact sand and gravel. Apart from the biting wind, if you ever fell over your skin was stripped, you could also get a face full of gravel when someone hit the ball and you were nearby. A hateful surface that was thankfully replaced by astroturf. Even the early astros were better than all weather pitches.

 

[Papas1982]

Some fair points, but under Brendan we scored tonnes of goals and let tonnes in, keeping them out at the other end or down to a minimum can be more beneficial.

Mane is our best forward and has been for 12 months, but Alison and VVD have made a massive difference into how hard we are to beat, and VVD has also brought an overall calmness to the team, which has been absent for 20 years plus, whereas we have always scored more than our fair share of goals.

VVD IMO has made the biggest difference to us as a team, CL winner, and but for 2 points would have been a league winner also.

Fully agree overall that he and Alison have made massive improvements defensively. Which clearly helped in regards to your massive league improvement.

But if we’re using the CL as the overriding factor, deciding that’s more important than a league win for Messi. I genuinely don’t think it was your improved defence that won it. You may correct me here, but I don’t recall any resolute defensive games in the knockouts where you held on for a vital clean sheet. You either got hammered or hammered a team lol

Other than the final which was a non event.

Unfortunately defenders just don’t win these awards. I can only recall Cannavaro and that’s was after his country won the World Cup.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Fully agree overall that he and Alison have made massive improvements defensively. Which clearly helped in regards to your massive league improvement.

But if we’re using the CL as the overriding factor, deciding that’s more important than a league win for Messi. I genuinely don’t think it was your improved defence that won it. You may correct me here, but I don’t recall any resolute defensive games in the knockouts where you held on for a vital clean sheet. You either got hammered or hammered a team lol

Other than the final which was a non event.

Unfortunately defenders just don’t win these awards. I can only recall Cannavaro and that’s was after his country won the World Cup.

But was Messi any more instrumental in Barcelona winning a national title that only two other clubs could have won than Van Dijk was in Liverpool winning the world's premier club competition?

 

[Papas1982]

But was Messi any more instrumental in Barcelona winning a national title that only two other clubs could have won than Van Dijk was in Liverpool winning the world's premier club competition?

As I said previously. 36 in 34 league games would from the outside look pretty clear that he did. The same as Liverpool’s better defence since VVD joined shows he’s made a improvement in the leagues I just don’t know if VVD performances are as tangible in the CL.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

As I said previously. 36 in 34 league games would from the outside look pretty clear that he did. The same as Liverpool’s better defence since VVD joined shows he’s made a improvement in the leagues I just don’t know if VVD performances are as tangible in the CL.

So what was Messi's effect upon Barcelona in the CL?

 

[Papas1982]

So what was Messi's effect upon Barcelona in the CL?

I havent said he had any effect on their CL campaign.

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying its based on their contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win.

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. Id pick Messi first.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I haven’t said he had any effect on their CL campaign.

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying it’s based on contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win.

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. I’d pick Messi first.

Which was more difficult to win, Primera Liga or Champions League?

Fewer games in the latter but a higher level of competition

 

[Papas1982]

Which was more difficult to win, Primera Liga or Champions League?

Fewer games in the latter but a higher level of competition

Imo the Cl is harder for Barca to win, the PL is harder for Liverpool to win. Hence them being in 4 finals I believe since their last title.

That said, that has zero relevance to my POV. As I’ve repeated, and will do one last time. I don’t think VVD’s contribution is as clear in the cl as it is in the league. So I wouldn’t use it as a deciding factor.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Imo the Cl is harder for Barca to win, the PL is harder for Liverpool to win. Hence them being in 4 finals I believe since their last title.

That said, that has zero relevance to my POV. As I’ve repeated, and will do one last time. I don’t think VVD’s contribution is as clear in the cl as it is in the league. So I wouldn’t use it as a deciding factor.

Fair enough.

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.

 

[Papas1982]

Fair enough.

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.

Which is totally fair. Generally their CL performances are still superior then everyone else’s.

Certainly getting to the end of that era.

 

[clubchamp98]

I havent said he had any effect on their CL campaign.

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying its based on their contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win.

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. Id pick Messi first.

Using the logic of winning the league a Man City player should have won it.
As PL is harder than any other .

 

[Papas1982]

Using the logic of winning the league a Man City player should have won it.
As PL is harder than any other .

Not at all.

Most people consider them two the stand out Players. Then you need reasons to separate them.

For all the talk of the pl being tougher. For the last 2 years city have been 20 points plus ahead of third. Having no real competition in17/*8 and one team as comp last year. Is that any different to La Liga. Barcelona still have to finish ahead of arguably the biggest team in the world if they want to win the title.

 

[TheDiablo]

Fair enough.

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.

Comparatively easy compared to the Prem? Not unless you swallow the Sky hype machine, Prem has been guff for depth for a decade now and the gap in quality is only getting larger.

 

[Fish]

FA Cup Draw

Leicester V wigan
QPR V Swansea
Fulham V Aston Villa
Chelsea V Notts Forest
Wolves V Man Utd
Charlton V West Brom
Rochdale/Boston V Newcastle
Cardiff V Forest Green/ Carlisle
Oxford V Exeter/ Hartlepool
Sheff Utd V AFC Flyde
Saints V Huddersfield
Liverpool V Everton
Bristol City V Shrewsbury
Bournemouth V Luton
Brighton V Sheff Wed
Bristol Rovers/Plymouth
Eastleigh/Crewe V Barnsley
Man City V Port Vale
Middlesbrough V Tottenham
Reading V Blackpool
Watford V Tranmere
Preston V Norwich
Millwall V Newport County
Palace V Derby
Solihull/ Rotherham V Hull City
Brentford V Stoke City
Fleetwood Town V Portsmouth
Arsenal V Leeds
Gillingham V West Ham
Burton V Northampton
Burnley V Peterborough
Birmingham V Blackburn Rovers