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Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

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Lord Tyrion said:
It should have been a free kick then. It is one or the other, surely? Mina is a big man, jumps well. He outjumped Alli, no shame in that, and there is always an element of contact at corners. He didn't wallop him, there was no clear push.

I have no idea why they needed 15 different angles. 14 showed it to be hand ball, 1 did not (I may have exaggerated this but not by much)
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Probably not because VAR isn't used to decide free kicks. In whatever their daft rules are. I'm just saying they must have decided there were enough mitigating circumstances - elbow in the head, and the fact that it glances off Mina onto Dele from 6 inches away - that they decided it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' oversight by the ref. Honestly I have no idea if it should be a penalty or not. Think we've got off lucky with it as you've seen them given lots of times, but I also think it would have been slightly unfair on Dele given the elbow he got. I'm not sure if the latest handball rule makes a provision for if pressure from an opponent forces you into handballing it - surely it does and that's why it's not given?

100% it took waaaaaay too long, wasn't it 2 or 3 minutes? Utterly ridiculous. You only need to watch it maybe twice to see what happened and then make your mind up. I agree with Pochettino (and lots of other people)'s comments that why is the referee not watching the pitchside screen?? Every ground has installed them and they've been completely redundant. A man sitting in Stockley Park doesn't have context for the incident, the referee having been right there on the pitch, just needs a better view of it and he is best placed to make the decision surely. Scrap the bloody VAR studio and just show it to the ref on screen, 2 or 3 views and he should make his decision quickly based off that. It's not a difficult concept but the FA have royally fudged it up.
 
Orikoru said:
Probably not because VAR isn't used to decide free kicks. In whatever their daft rules are. I'm just saying they must have decided there were enough mitigating circumstances - elbow in the head, and the fact that it glances off Mina onto Dele from 6 inches away - that they decided it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' oversight by the ref. Honestly I have no idea if it should be a penalty or not. Think we've got off lucky with it as you've seen them given lots of times, but I also think it would have been slightly unfair on Dele given the elbow he got. I'm not sure if the latest handball rule makes a provision for if pressure from an opponent forces you into handballing it - surely it does and that's why it's not given?

100% it took waaaaaay too long, wasn't it 2 or 3 minutes? Utterly ridiculous. You only need to watch it maybe twice to see what happened and then make your mind up. I agree with Pochettino (and lots of other people)'s comments that why is the referee not watching the pitchside screen?? Every ground has installed them and they've been completely redundant. A man sitting in Stockley Park doesn't have context for the incident, the referee having been right there on the pitch, just needs a better view of it and he is best placed to make the decision surely. Scrap the bloody VAR studio and just show it to the ref on screen, 2 or 3 views and he should make his decision quickly based off that. It's not a difficult concept but the FA have royally fudged it up.
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I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently :eek:. I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it :LOL:)
 
Stuart_C said:
I absolutely do believe theres better refs out there than Tierney, Moss, Friend, Mason to name a few. Those 4 alone have overstayed their welcome as a PL elite ref.

I agree the refs need help with technology to an extent but do you really believe this current crop of officials are using the technology correctly? I also accept refs will make mistakes, theyve got VAR now and are still making mistakes but at least the mistakes are being made in that moment.

Was football really that bad in recent seasons to have to go to were we are today with it?

It was brought in for clear and obvious, not subjective decisions.

We're trying to run before we can walk with it. Get rid of Riley, appoint a respected ex ref and let's start weeding the crap out. Then let's evolve VAR.
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See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently :eek:. I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it :LOL:)
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Ironic indeed - it couldn't take any longer than that did. As soon as the ref decides he wants a better view, instead of signalling to the VAR man he simply runs over to the screen, and it should be ready to go for him to look at.

On your second point, it's as I said earlier, when someone smacks the back of your head you tend to throw an arm up to put your hand where it hurts don't you? It's not really a conscious thing. When players jump and have their arms above their head for no reason, then I'd agree, that's handball.
 
Liverbirdie said:
See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use.
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I really disagree with this, that would make it into an awful gimmick. The referee alone should decide when he needs help in reviewing a decision. And as I said above, he should be the ones who watches it back at the side of the pitch, not relying on some clown in Stockley Park who has no measure of the actual context down on the pitch.
 
MetalMickie said:
A still photo is extremely misleading.

In the one shown it equally appears that Snodgrass has only just played the ball so Son's challenge is not that sinister.

Also players unfortunately get their feet and ankles trodden on as a result of mistimed tackles. It doesn't mean that there is an intention to hurt the opponent.
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No wonder Mane has to dive out the way of these terrible tackles going around. ;)
 
Orikoru said:
I really disagree with this, that would make it into an awful gimmick. The referee alone should decide when he needs help in reviewing a decision. And as I said above, he should be the ones who watches it back at the side of the pitch, not relying on some clown in Stockley Park who has no measure of the actual context down on the pitch.
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Big wow!
 
After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
 
Liverbirdie said:
See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use.
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Come round to what? The only real use for VAR is mistaken identity and was the ball/foul in or outside of the box. That's it. Your idea is farcical.

The rest of the game is subjective so let it be reffed by the professionals. A better standard of refs will improve decisions. Proving Bobby was offside by his armpit is a waste of time.

On a sidenote, going back to Bobby's disallowed goal, what happened to Lino's keeping their flags down like they were told to at the start of the season.
 
Tashyboy said:
After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
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You can't judge a challenge based on whether the receiving player got injured or not. Players have received monstrous knee-high stonewall red card tackles before and walked away luckily unscathed, so would you downgrade them to a booking?? No, and it doesn't work the other way round either. Gomes was unfortunate in how he landed while off balance, that could have happened on literally any sliding tackle, fair or foul. You have to judge the action itself, not the aftermath. Most people have objectively agreed Son's tackle was a yellow card challenge.
 
Tashyboy said:
After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
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Not, for me, "accidental" when there's been foul play involved...
 
Lord Tyrion said:
I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently :eek:. I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it :LOL:)
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The ref had plenty of time to look at the monitor while Shockley Park were messing around.

You can’t make your silhouette bigger and putting your arm over your head comes into that I think.
Ali had his arm up before Mina touched him,
 
Tashyboy said:
After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
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All professional fouls should be red for this reason .
It needs stamping out.
How many more need to be seriously hurt.
 
sawtooth said:
You got me.

Still only 1 out 4 of you though the others would never admit it.😗
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You're starting to sound like a stuck record. Mane was booked for diving, correctly. What does a bunch of fans on a forum 'admitting' it have to do with anything? He dived and was punished by what the laws state the punishment is. Why does it need an endless discussion when there is no debate to be had?
 
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