Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[fundy]

Being reported Marega of Porto was racially abused tonight in their game. When he complained and tried to leave the pitch, his own team mates tried to stop him leaving the pitch and the ref booked him!!!

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28717685

His post match statement

Marega's statement: "To those idiots that go to the stadium to racially abuse people, go f*** yourselves. I'm also grateful to the referee for not defending me & for giving me a yellow card for defending my skin colour. I hope I never see you on a pitch again. You're a disgrace."

 

[Wolf]

Being reported Marega of Porto was racially abused tonight in their game. When he complained and tried to leave the pitch, his own team mates tried to stop him leaving the pitch and the ref booked him!!!

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28717685

His post match statement

Marega's statement: "To those idiots that go to the stadium to racially abuse people, go f*** yourselves. I'm also grateful to the referee for not defending me & for giving me a yellow card for defending my skin colour. I hope I never see you on a pitch again. You're a disgrace."

Just seen a video of the incident on twitter. Horrendous his team mates were literally hanging off him to stop him leaving the pitch, at one stage the camera pans to Porto GK who does the crazy pointing to head thing towards Marega. Absolute disgraceful behaviour by fans, the Porto players and referee.

 

[fundy]

Just seen a video of the incident on twitter. Horrendous his team mates were literally hanging off him to stop him leaving the pitch, at one stage the camera pans to Porto GK who does the crazy pointing to head thing towards Marega. Absolute disgraceful behaviour by fans, the Porto players and referee.

yeah been watching a few videos of it, utterly embarrassing. Some of his team mates especially need to take a good look at themselves

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't know how Joelinton gets a game either as he's been poor whenever I've seen him but in reality how much depth do you have and would playing a youngster from the U23 not be a risk? Thought Newcastle were poor today and only one win in the last five. I can't see Toon getting sucked into a relegation battle but yet another mid-table season with nothing to play for.

I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.

If someone isn't putting it in (I guess similar to the Ozil issue at Arsenal) then it makes sense to try something different but isn't there also an argument that the manage needs to get hold of the player and find a way to get him back playing well or is this more to do with the player or club deciding they don't want the player to be there

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Of course we do, otherwise what is the point of having wealthy owners?
They have soaked millions out of the club in interest payments and made a fortune selling Upton Park...people criticise Mike Ashley but all the money he put into Newcastle was interest free.
Personally if we go down and the owners lose a packet I will be highly delighted!... It won’t bother me, I actually enjoy Championship Footy.

Will I miss the delights of watching some preening, over-tattooed household-name throwing himself around like a rag doll in a hurricane to "win" a penalty? No.
Will I miss VAR? Of course not...The club continues. In whatever division they play. I'll still watch. And I'll still support. And I may well enjoy it all the more.

And that was the point I was alluding to when it comes to fans expectations - because fans see their owners as very rich they want them to put that money into the club to buy players - but unless that person is one of the super rich it becomes unsustainable- and that’s one of the reasons why FFP was started.

An owner can dip into his pocket and spend £50mil on a player - but what happens when that player doesn’t work out ? Do the fans want the owners to dip in again , then again - these guys are rich for a reason , making smart business choices. I have seen the same with Liverpool fans over the past 5 years - our owners are minted and people expected them to start paying out for players in the same way the Man City owners did - but they said from their start , self sustaining club , can spend whatever the club earns , so if they want to spend more they need to earn more - and that’s the change we have made over the past ten years , smart business choices to allow the manager to spend.

Football is awash with money and I agree with Pete that some money needs to be spread about a bit more - CL telly money for example could be spread more but there imo needs to be restrictions in place to stop clubs being based on someone’s personal fortune.

 

[Tashyboy]

Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.

Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.

Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.

FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.

The problem for me Paul is football is now a business. Fans are now secondary. What we pay in season tickets, shirts etc is a small part of a big pie. TV money and wealthy owners being larger parts of the pie. As I say it’s a business. How many businesses run on a yearly or seasonal cycle. They run short medium and long term. That’s what City have done, and others. City laid the foundations through sheik mansoor years ago. Now they are self sustainable. The value of the club has gone through the ceiling. However it’s dressed up, football has always been peaks and troughs and from a footballing point of view, I feel City were at the peak last season. Liverpool this. That’s how it is, and hopefully that’s how it will stay.
Looking forward to how this pans out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.

I’m not sure what is referring to in what I posted ? We were talking about players

Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.

What’s the point in going through “IF’s” - maybe it’s better to look at what has happened - they haven’t been perfect and no one has suggested as such but they have learned from mistakes they made both in terms of recruitment and commercial and right now they are moving forward as each season goes by - all fans would love more trophies but I’m not going to complain right now when I see what they are doing with the club .

Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.

All done within the clubs self sustaining budget through player sales , increased commercial and matchday revenue - which was the point being made , the club have money to spend because they have earned the money as opposed to coming from the wallet of the owners

FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.

Clubs, owners and fans don’t wait that long - they are looking for instant success, they see a club is bought out and then expect the money to go out and the trophies to come in - doesn’t happen in reality

I’m not sure what point you are making in reagrds the FFP manipulation ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And that was the point I was alluding to when it comes to fans expectations - because fans see their owners as very rich they want them to put that money into the club to buy players - but unless that person is one of the super rich it becomes unsustainable- and that’s one of the reasons why FFP was started.

An owner can dip into his pocket and spend £50mil on a player - but what happens when that player doesn’t work out ? Do the fans want the owners to dip in again , then again - these guys are rich for a reason , making smart business choices. I have seen the same with Liverpool fans over the past 5 years - our owners are minted and people expected them to start paying out for players in the same way the Man City owners did - but they said from their start , self sustaining club , can spend whatever the club earns , so if they want to spend more they need to earn more - and that’s the change we have made over the past ten years , smart business choices to allow the manager to spend.

Football is awash with money and I agree with Pete that some money needs to be spread about a bit more - CL telly money for example could be spread more but there imo needs to be restrictions in place to stop clubs being based on someone’s personal fortune.

Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.

Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.

Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.

FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

What is the forum opinion on Grealish? Does he need to move on now to somewhere like Arsenal to improve or is he as good as he's likely to get and is the England talk vastly over hyped

No Grealish should be setting his sights higher than Arsenal and play for a good team. As such he'd be a perfect fit for Wolves or Sheffield United..............

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I’m not sure what is referring to in what I posted ? We were talking about players



What’s the point in going through “IF’s” - maybe it’s better to look at what has happened - they haven’t been perfect and no one has suggested as such but they have learned from mistakes they made both in terms of recruitment and commercial and right now they are moving forward as each season goes by - all fans would love more trophies but I’m not going to complain right now when I see what they are doing with the club .



All done within the clubs self sustaining budget through player sales , increased commercial and matchday revenue - which was the point being made , the club have money to spend because they have earned the money as opposed to coming from the wallet of the owners



Clubs, owners and fans don’t wait that long - they are looking for instant success, they see a club is bought out and then expect the money to go out and the trophies to come in - doesn’t happen in reality

I’m not sure what point you are making in reagrds the FFP manipulation ?

The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The problem for me Paul is football is now a business. Fans are now secondary. What we pay in season tickets, shirts etc is a small part of a big pie. TV money and wealthy owners being larger parts of the pie. As I say it’s a business. How many businesses run on a yearly or seasonal cycle. They run short medium and long term. That’s what City have done, and others. City laid the foundations through sheik mansoor years ago. Now they are self sustainable. The value of the club has gone through the ceiling. However it’s dressed up, football has always been peaks and troughs and from a footballing point of view, I feel City were at the peak last season. Liverpool this. That’s how it is, and hopefully that’s how it will stay.
Looking forward to how this pans out.

And as I said yesterday, my heart prefers the sport side and me head says it’s business.
FIFA/UEFA are not allowing Clubs(Business) the opportunity to spend there own money as they fit.
I’m not clued up on the business side of life, but isn’t that a form of restriction of trade?

 

[clubchamp98]

No Grealish should be setting his sights higher than Arsenal and play for a good team. As such he'd be a perfect fit for Wolves or Sheffield United..............

Would like to see him in a Liverpool shirt .
Robbo ,Grealish ,Mane down the left side would be scary.
He might get in Robbo way possibly but sure Klopp could sort it out.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If someone isn't putting it in (I guess similar to the Ozil issue at Arsenal) then it makes sense to try something different but isn't there also an argument that the manage needs to get hold of the player and find a way to get him back playing well or is this more to do with the player or club deciding they don't want the player to be there

How long do you give a player though? He has played 26 PL games this seaon, scored 1 goal, 2 assists. There reaches a point where you have to give him the tug for the best of the team. Maybe a spell on the bench, coming on as sub, will give him the kick he needs. 1 goal and 2 assists is not giving the team anything though, is it? Not if that is from your main man up front.

Incidentally, Newcastle are a poor team going forward, the CF is pretty isolated, so I know it is a tough job that he has. I just don't see him giving anything at the moment, poor hold up, poor lay offs, no goals, no killer through passes. He is just a passenger.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.

I won't defend him too much because he has been pretty poor, but you also have to look at Bruce who's playing 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 even on winnable home games. Joelinton hasn't had much to work with, they need someone who can create something out of nothing with that system, and he isn't quite the man for that job.

On Grealish - it took me a long time to warm to him but I have to admit he's a very tidy creative midfield player. I wouldn't mind seeing him start a few games for England and see what he can give us - creative CMs is something we've lacked for a few years.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How long do you give a player though? He has played 26 PL games this seaon, scored 1 goal, 2 assists. There reaches a point where you have to give him the tug for the best of the team. Maybe a spell on the bench, coming on as sub, will give him the kick he needs. 1 goal and 2 assists is not giving the team anything though, is it? Not if that is from your main man up front.

Incidentally, Newcastle are a poor team going forward, the CF is pretty isolated, so I know it is a tough job that he has. I just don't see him giving anything at the moment, poor hold up, poor lay offs, no goals, no killer through passes. He is just a passenger.

Stats definitely indicate he's a passenger but how much blame lies at Bruce's door with the way he's setting sides up and unless he changes formation or approach won't the next guy have the same problems in terms of service and lack of opportunity to create.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?

City have got stick because they are at the mercy of one personal and his fortune and many have suspected they have been circumvented the rules to do it.

Why should FFP decide rbe way to go - because that’s what the authorities have decided is the way to go to help protect clubs and the sport. I agree with it and believe clubs should be self sustaining with tolerances for losses etc

 

[Liverbirdie]

The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?

Of course its brought them success they have regularly outspent clubs over the last 10 years, the vast majority out of the owner;s pockets, not the club's, and illegally to boot.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years. - We all know that taken in isolation, it can be a skewed figure - why not also insert the line about Jurgen only building a team on a nett. spend of 20m a year since he's been there?

if you sell Lukaku for say 100 million, then buy 2-3 players for 100 million - it may make you a big spender, but not based on the fact that you have lost a very good player, and you have to replace him, sometimes not like-for-like either.

We sold Coutinho, who has been world class for 18 months before, but we replaced him with 2 world class players(luckily). City would have been able to keep the world class player and still sign the other two - therin the difference.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Stats definitely indicate he's a passenger but how much blame lies at Bruce's door with the way he's setting sides up and unless he changes formation or approach won't the next guy have the same problems in terms of service and lack of opportunity to create.

Definitely doesn't help but I don't see anything there anyway. There are teams such as Burnley who play a similar way to an extent, not as grim, but you see a level of effort from their CF, putting himself about, creating a nuisance etc that Joelinton doesn't even give. If you are not going to score then at least disrupt the centre halves, make their life hard. Calvert Lewin for Everton does this very well and even when he was not scoring last year he offered the team something still. I think he is just a dud buy, I don't see a silver lining for him.

 

[Tashyboy]

And as I said yesterday, my heart prefers the sport side and me head says it’s business.
FIFA/UEFA are not allowing Clubs(Business) the opportunity to spend there own money as they fit.
I’m not clued up on the business side of life, but isn’t that a form of restriction of trade?

That’s kinda what I was getting at restriction of trade. There’s something I cannot get my head around. Clubs like Bury go bust. Did FFP protect them. I don’t know. Again I know that football is business. But away from football. Companies go bust. It’s part of life.