Preferred Lies in Winter

[3offTheTee]

Many clubs have preferred lies in Winter on a closely mawn area.

We now have preferred lies through the green which means that if you are in the rough you have more of an advantage than beeing on the fairway as you can tee the ball up and it seems unreasonable. I am aware it is the same for everyone.

What happens at your Club and what opinion do you have please?

 

[Imurg]

Pick'n'place on short cut grass only at ours.
During the winter, gor our Friday bounce games, if the ball plugs in the rough we roll it out but no cleaning. Seems fairer than burying it more...
Can't agree with p'n'p in the rough though.

 

[Dodger]

Jeeeez,do you also get to kick it from behind the trees?!

Preference lies in the rough?? I have heard it all now!

 

[USER1999]

Surely the words through the green apply to cut grass only? As in not rough?

 

[brendy]

We have through the green (everywhere) at the moment, having most of the course on clay based soil, the winter takes its toll, we had out worst areas sorted this past couple of years but still get plugged balls the odd time. Links courses locally are not having nearly the same bother the lucky sods.

 

[splashtryagain]

We are on through the green as well - winter is crap so this goes some way to making it up!

 

[USER1999]

I don't have a rule book with me, but I thought through the green was cut stuff only. If you have pnp every where, that is not through the green?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Really don't see the logic in PnP in the rough. SUrely the idea is to get punished if you can't hit it straight and the reward for doing so is to clean it and find a juicy bit of grass to stick it on. Definitely not my idea of winter golf

 

[TXL]

I don't have a rule book with me, but I thought through the green was cut stuff only. If you have pnp every where, that is not through the green?

If you go to the Rules Explorer on the R&A website you can get the definition.

"Through the green" is the whole area of the course except: a) the teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played, and b) All hazards on the course.

Must admit that I thought it was closely mown areas only! You live and learn

 

[brendy]

Really don't see the logic in PnP in the rough. SUrely the idea is to get punished if you can't hit it straight and the reward for doing so is to clean it and find a juicy bit of grass to stick it on. Definitely not my idea of winter golf

Some courses have drainage that clears fairways but rough can be soaking wet, it speeds play plus if you are stuck in the trees, taking the lift clean and place 6 inches still isnt going to get you out of trouble that much.
Some golfers dont know how well off they really are when they get to play handicap qualifiers 52 weeks of the year. We get 6 months.

 

[wull]

yeah as above "through the green" is the whole course and when you have preferred lies due to excessive rain etc it would usually be the cut parts of the course where you get preferred lies.

 

[TXL]

OK, I continued to search and found the following suggested local rule contained in the R & A Rules of Golf, Appendix I, Part B, Section 4c that covers "Winter Rules":

c. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”
Ground under repair is provided for in Rule 25 and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair.
However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When such conditions are so general throughout a course that the Committee believes “preferred lies” or “winter rules” would promote fair play or help protect the course, the following Local Rule is recommended:

“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

Note: “Closely-mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

*If a player incurs the general penalty for a breach of this Local Rule, no additional penalty under the Local Rule is applied.”

Notice the wording that I have highlighted. Basically, you need to check the wording of the local rule that is in place at your club.

 

[Region3]

Ours is closely mown, so fairways and fringes. In the rough is ridiculous, unless plugged.

 

[NWJocko]

We are on through the green as well - winter is crap so this goes some way to making it up!

Snap.

Ours is actually "if plugged" if in the semi/rough. Being as it's rained for weeks here every ball in the semi or rough is plugged so can clean and drop.

Lost 3 balls yesterday from plugging! Going to buy some orange/yellow ones so they might be easier to spot!!

 

[trevor]

At ours if it's off the fairway and plugged it can be lifted out but not cleaned. If it's plugged there's not much point in trying to hit it out of what is likely to be soft ground and making a large hole in the ground.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

OK, I continued to search and found the following suggested local rule contained in the R & A Rules of Golf, Appendix I, Part B, Section 4c that covers "Winter Rules":

c. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”
Ground under repair is provided for in Rule 25 and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair.
However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When such conditions are so general throughout a course that the Committee believes “preferred lies” or “winter rules” would promote fair play or help protect the course, the following Local Rule is recommended:

“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

Note: “Closely-mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

*If a player incurs the general penalty for a breach of this Local Rule, no additional penalty under the Local Rule is applied.”

Notice the wording that I have highlighted. Basically, you need to check the wording of the local rule that is in place at your club.

That'll be the trouble then. Our rough is still summer height and definitely not mown to anywhere near fairway length. Go in it even by a yard or so and it is 50/50 whether you'll find it. The club really needs to get its act together realise it isn't Open conditions and give it a mow so members can at least have a chance of finding and playing it and we're not all hanging about on the tee waiting to be called through (as if) while they search. It only needs to be a few inches deep to be penal as its so wet. Not rocket science surely

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Our preferred lies rules are lift,clean and place on closely mown and mark, lift/clean and drop within 6" no nearer the hole in the rough.

I think this is fair and it seems to work well.

That said, i try not to prefer my lie a lot because its easy to get used too.

 

[DaveM]

Interesting tread. Suprizing how much local rules differ. Pays to be on the ball.

 

[bladeplayer]

We have P&P everywhere , only playing 13 hole comps , nobody minds as the real golf is over for the year anyhow , this is winter league & its just to get out & play keep the club & the members running til the new year , seems to be helping the shorter hitters as they can nicely place it up & hit woods / rescues into greens ,
soon could be temp greens so enjoy it for what it is while we can

 

[chris661]

We have P&P everywhere , only playing 13 hole comps , nobody minds as the real golf is over for the year anyhow , this is winter league & its just to get out & play keep the club & the members running til the new year , seems to be helping the shorter hitters as they can nicely place it up & hit woods / rescues into greens ,
soon could be temp greens so enjoy it for what it is while we can

As an aside to that are you happy to be paying for, at best, 9 months golf a year?

This has to be one, if not, the best reasons for playing at a links course. Along with the fact that we only have placing on the fairways as the greenkeepers are busy straightening out tee boxes and building new bunkers