Potential dilemma for a golf club manager/secretary

[beau d.]

Very good and Interesting topic..... My take, slow play should be addressed no matter the level, my reasoning is firstly I don't like it and don't play well having to wait to play every shot, but more importantly with times as they are how often do we see long rounds tying a full day up (after a swift one in the clubhouse) putting people off golf? Far too often.....
Answering the specific question, this may not be popular with everyone but I feel every newbee to a club should take a level of competence test with the Pro to ensure they are good enough and prepared enough to enjoy the course themselves and allow other members/guests to do the same. I would look at level of ability as someone who can play no where near to the upper handicap limit should not be out on the course at peak times. Their time would be far better spent getting their game up to speed than creating havoc out on the course, spoiling the experience of other golfers out on that course. Most importantly, a teach in covering the main points of etiquette i.e "loosing others through", repair of pitch marks/divots, raking bunkers etc etc (perhaps this should not just be restricted to newbees as many established golfers seem oblivious to the etiquette and looking after the course side of the game).
Like I say this may not be popular with everyone on here but for my point who loves his golf, I think every member and Club should be doing everything they can to keep existing members and encourage new members to play the game. Far too many clubs have been closed over the last few years or are under threat of closure, and in my opinion we should be doing everything we can to make the game a pleasure and not a chore, keeping as many course as we possibly can on the map......

 

[In_The_Rough]

Agree in theory but not going to happen with things how they are. Making people take ability tests and if they fail not allowing them to play or be members. What a lot do not seem to understand on here is that there are a large amount of golfers who have no interest in getting better or practicing, I know members at my local course that have never used the driving range or short game area. They turn up 10 mins before their tee off time sign in at the pro shop and then play their round and go to the bar for a swift one after and that is it we do not see them until the following weekend. They are all rubbish golfers and would not pass a playing test if it was introduced so would promptly leave the club and join elsewhere losing the club a few thousand pounds in subs. The thinking that slow play is caused by high handicaps is a myth. The slowest players I have ever played with are the very low handicaps who take and age with pre shot routines, putting is also the same lining it up from behind and in front of the hole. Slow play is a problem yes but it is not easy for most clubs to sort out as they are scared of upsetting the offenders and losing revenue

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don't blame you for leaving - three of my mates are all over 18 handicap and if they weren't allowed in comps would leave.

What was the course if you don't mind me askin

We have comps where entry is max h/cap 18. We have comps where max h/cap allowance is 18; we have comps where minimum handicap is 18. No restrictions in medals - as there can't be.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No bloody idea but surely unless someone tells him he'll just carry on doing it

Well he was part of the roll-up group last Saturday which received the penny lecture on slow play (mentioned above) from the organiser. He did then play a bit quicker. I admit to getting out of the blocks very quickly after hitting our tee shots - so he was often left trailing behind. But I think he did try and keep up with me - dunno. Still bleedin' irritating when he declines tapping in an 18"er because he would be standing on my line - after I had told him it didn't matter to me if he did so please finish off. BTW he didn't actually have to hole the 18" putt as he was not going to be able to contribute to our AM-AM stableford score for the hole. He just wanted to hole out every putt as he was scoring himself.

 

[chellie]

Well he was part of the roll-up group last Saturday which received the penny lecture on slow play (mentioned above) from the organiser. He did then play a bit quicker. I admit to getting out of the blocks very quickly after hitting our tee shots - so he was often left trailing behind. But I think he did try and keep up with me - dunno. Still bleedin' irritating when he declines tapping in an 18"er because he would be standing on my line - after I had told him it didn't matter to me if he did so please finish off. BTW he didn't actually have to hole the 18" putt as he was not going to be able to contribute to our AM-AM stableford score for the hole. He just wanted to hole out every putt as he was scoring himself.

Again, probably easier said than done but he should be told he's NOT to putt out if he can't score in a comp. Perhaps all just walk off to the next tee.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Well he was part of the roll-up group last Saturday which received the penny lecture on slow play (mentioned above) from the organiser. He did then play a bit quicker. I admit to getting out of the blocks very quickly after hitting our tee shots - so he was often left trailing behind. But I think he did try and keep up with me - dunno. Still bleedin' irritating when he declines tapping in an 18"er because he would be standing on my line - after I had told him it didn't matter to me if he did so please finish off. BTW he didn't actually have to hole the 18" putt as he was not going to be able to contribute to our AM-AM stableford score for the hole. He just wanted to hole out every putt as he was scoring himself.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Again, probably easier said than done but he should be told he's NOT to putt out if he can't score in a comp. Perhaps all just walk off to the next tee.

As it happens our third man was the Club chairman. He wasn't too impressed that we took 4hrs to do a 2 from 3 scores AM-AM (first groups were 3 and 3/4hrs - we were slower). Maybe I'll have a word with chairman to see what he thought

 

[Deleted member 18645]

We had a clown like this at our place a few months back who shot a 140, a 150 and then finished nearer 200. The club would not give him a handicap until he showed some real improvement. He went round bitching about it to the club GM and the owners and thankfully they told him the same thing. I played with him on the near 200 round and it was a bloody nightmare.

 

[MadAdey]

Really not sure how you can approach this situation.

But imagine this. You turn up for one of the big board comps. Someone has been put into your 2-ball that you do not know. You exchange greetings and swap cards. You see he plays off 28, but hey that is not a problem everyone has to start somewhere. You walk onto the second tee and have to ask how many he had as you lost count when you ran out of fingers and had to let a group play through. This carries on for the next couple of hours and you have still only played 6 holes. You had a steady start, nothing amazing but steady, but you can feel your game is slowly getting worse as you are spending all your time searching for balls and letting groups through.

At the halfway point he asks how many he has had, I add up his card and he has already blown his handicap. You tell him the score and he just decides to call a day and walk off. You look at your own score and see it is not brilliant, but stay out there and just have a few quid with your mate and a laugh.

Should people like that be out on the course? Is it fair that they can hold up the course and destroy someone elses round? I have nothing against beginers, but if you are not capable of getting around the course in a reasonable manner, then you should not be allowed in comps. That is just my opinion.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Really not sure how you can approach this situation.

But imagine this. You turn up for one of the big board comps. Someone has been put into your 2-ball that you do not know. You exchange greetings and swap cards. You see he plays off 28, but hey that is not a problem everyone has to start somewhere. You walk onto the second tee and have to ask how many he had as you lost count when you ran out of fingers and had to let a group play through. This carries on for the next couple of hours and you have still only played 6 holes. You had a steady start, nothing amazing but steady, but you can feel your game is slowly getting worse as you are spending all your time searching for balls and letting groups through.

At the halfway point he asks how many he has had, I add up his card and he has already blown his handicap. You tell him the score and he just decides to call a day and walk off. You look at your own score and see it is not brilliant, but stay out there and just have a few quid with your mate and a laugh.

Should people like that be out on the course? Is it fair that they can hold up the course and destroy someone elses round? I have nothing against beginers, but if you are not capable of getting around the course in a reasonable manner, then you should not be allowed in comps. That is just my opinion.

Which is why handicap secretaries should not allocate 28 handicaps for the sake of it. If I put in 3 cards of +22, +25 & +23, I wouldn't be allocated a handicap of 10, so why should someone with cards in and around the early +40s get a handicap of 28?

 

[philly169]

I played in our Masters comp this year (board comp winners only) quite a large field, I was playing off 18, but there were many with higher handicaps. Par 71, I shot 115, 26 shots over handicap, id even started bogey bogey par par, yes a par on our fourth! I then went on to hit a 15 and an 11 as well as a couple of 7's and 8's.

I didn't cause any slow play, I didn't upset any of my playing partners. I felt disappointed in myself for hitting such a high score but it happens and you learn from it.

Regardless of handicaps, if Joe Bloggs has paid his 600-1000 membership fees and wants to enter competitions, he can do. Competition pressure and playing with new people isn't going to make him play any better, but it will give him experience. I can't imagine he's happy at shooting 140 or whatever and hitting balls left and right into every hazard whilst his mate Bobby B is stinging everything down the middle so he will build on that and get better whilst learning to keep up the pace, if not let people through.

If you played a medal comp and shot +26 over your handicap and your secretary said "sorry chap, but a score like that means you need to get better before you can play again" - you'd probably have a few choice words back.

 

[MadAdey]

I played in our Masters comp this year (board comp winners only) quite a large field, I was playing off 18, but there were many with higher handicaps. Par 71, I shot 115, 26 shots over handicap, id even started bogey bogey par par, yes a par on our fourth! I then went on to hit a 15 and an 11 as well as a couple of 7's and 8's.

I didn't cause any slow play, I didn't upset any of my playing partners. I felt disappointed in myself for hitting such a high score but it happens and you learn from it.

Regardless of handicaps, if Joe Bloggs has paid his 600-1000 membership fees and wants to enter competitions, he can do. Competition pressure and playing with new people isn't going to make him play any better, but it will give him experience. I can't imagine he's happy at shooting 140 or whatever and hitting balls left and right into every hazard whilst his mate Bobby B is stinging everything down the middle so he will build on that and get better whilst learning to keep up the pace, if not let people through.

If you played a medal comp and shot +26 over your handicap and your secretary said "sorry chap, but a score like that means you need to get better before you can play again" - you'd probably have a few choice words back.

everyone has a bad day now and again, I shot 96 in a medal earlier in the year. I think this is more aimed at people who consistently play like that, holding up the course and having an effect on people they are playing with. Playing in comps with new people can effect how you play, but how you play should not effect others around you. I think if this is happening then the committee do need to step in and say something.

 

[garyinderry]

the thing is, your 26 over handicap was a rare occurrence. the others we are talking about are a little more frequent.


in all honesty, if I shot 26 over handicap and the secretary told me to improve before playing again, I would tend to agree with him. if fact, I wouldn't need to be told!

 

[GB72]

everyone has a bad day now and again, I shot 96 in a medal earlier in the year. I think this is more aimed at people who consistently play like that, holding up the course and having an effect on people they are playing with. Playing in comps with new people can effect how you play, but how you play should not effect others around you. I think if this is happening then the committee do need to step in and say something.

I think this is a large part of the problem in that committees are not willing to pick up individual members on their pace of play. I am sure that most people on here can name the slower members at their club but I would be willing to bet that not more than a handful have actually approached the member about their pace of play or signed up to play with them in a competition to see for themselves. I get the feeling that quite a few clubs are happy to put up posters and send out emails about pace of play but when it comes to actually confronting those who could do with upping their speed of play and bit they do very little. That results in members taking matters in to their own hands and confronting each other on the course (sometimes totally unnecessarily) and that leads to hard feelings, whispered slurs on people's reputations and a reduction in club spirit.

If clubs want to deal with slower players they need to be more willing to address people in person. That does not even need to be confrontational and maybe even offering to go out for a round with them to see if they can offer some pointers to speed play up may help.

 

[beau d.]

I see the gist of this thread as being about slow play, yes I suppose potentially high handicappers will take longer due to time being spent looking for balls etc. I feel it was not about excluding high handicappers from comps, but people who are way over their handicaps who would enforce a 5 to 6 hour round on the following groups, possibly preventing those groups from finishing their round perhaps due to sheer frustration or light dependent on the time of year. Slow play is the bane of golf in my opinion and should have action taken against the persistent perpetrators if they play off 28 or scratch.....

 

[MadAdey]

That results in members taking matters in to their own hands and confronting each other on the course (sometimes totally unnecessarily) and that leads to hard feelings, whispered slurs on people's reputations and a reduction in club spirit.
.

Problem is when they do that they can be very rude and cause hard feelings.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

the thing is, your 26 over handicap was a rare occurrence. the others we are talking about are a little more frequent.


in all honesty, if I shot 26 over handicap and the secretary told me to improve before playing again, I would tend to agree with him. if fact, I wouldn't need to be told!

Exactly what I was going to say

 

[GB72]

Problem is when they do that they can be very rude and cause hard feelings.

Never seen that happen at all recently.......

 

[chellie]

:fore:

We had a clown like this at our place a few months back who shot a 140, a 150 and then finished nearer 200. The club would not give him a handicap until he showed some real improvement. He went round bitching about it to the club GM and the owners and thankfully they told him the same thing. I played with him on the near 200 round and it was a bloody nightmare.

OMG at those scores.

Also, going back to practice swings I was out with HID once and saw a man take 6 practice swings for a chip shot over a bunker onto the green. Took his shot and the ball went in the bunker.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Problem is when they do that they can be very rude and cause hard feelings.

As long as they keep it beteen themselves I don't care if things are speeded up. These days I find myself more often willing to say 'OK guys - we are dropping behind the lot in front and losing our place - we need to get a move on and catch up'

Non-contentious and makes the point - nothing about us actually being slow - just that we are slower than the lot in front.