Poor scores in senior qualifiers!

[Three]

If the hole was bigger it would be much fairer for the old boys.

 

[delc]

How many were recommended to have increases? Without knowing that, it's not really possible to make much of a valid comment ... but I'm assuming you think that loads more should have had an increase. If that's the case, and there were many many more that were recommended but didn't get the increase then that'll be a club problem, and nothing at all to do with the system in place.

Not being part of the handicapping committee, I have no idea of how many players were recommended for a handicap adjustment. I can only report the final results, as published!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Well it isn't about hole sizes, but I have a feeling we've been here before haven't we del

 

[delc]

Well it isn't about hole sizes, but I have a feeling we've been here before haven't we del

The CONGU handicapping system doesn't seem to cope very well with rapidly improving golfers, or golfers whose game is deteriorating due to old age. In the latter case their handicaps will only go up automatically 0.1 at a time, and the Annual Review generally seems to ignore the problem!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The CONGU handicapping system doesn't seem to cope very well with rapidly improving golfers, or golfers whose game is deteriorating due to old age. In the latter case their handicaps will only go up automatically 0.1 at a time, and the Annual Review generally seems to ignore the problem!

Well we got to the point in the end

It's the same story again Del isn't it - we all knew the HC system would be next on the repeat button

ESRs sort out rapidly improving golfers

And ESI's and AR will sort out the ones in decline

Unless you have sat and witnessed the AR take place you don't know if they ignore anything

End of story

 

[Foxholer]

So since May you have had a couple of RO when the fields seem small and people struggle

Those scores will be looked at by the system when the AR comes around and players affected by RO on a semi regular basis will have their HC adjusted

Same with a lot of courses that have high CSS compared to the SSS.

Actually about half of our senior qualifiers have been R/O's this year, even in quite benign conditions. I mostly only play in senior comps these days, so my scores are being compared with unnaturally high CSS's. This was the cause of my famous ESR a few years ago, and my handicap is probably one or two shots lower than it would be if I only played in general club competitions!

Well either there have only been 4 or 5 comps or one of you is posting twaddle!

Can we have the facts please?

How many Senior comps this summer season? How many were R/O?

@Del. The system is doing exactly what it was designed to do - rating you against the rest of the competition population! However, there is an assumption that the competition population is statistically equivalent to that with which you 'normally' play! If that's not the case, then distortions are indeed possible! It's a 'problem' that Ladies have actually had for quite a while - where smaller fields are the main cause. Mixed pairs competitions then seem to be using 2 different handicap systems, though this is often also hidden simply by the amount of variance in any player's rounds day by day!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The CONGU handicapping system doesn't seem to cope very well with rapidly improving golfers, or golfers whose game is deteriorating due to old age. In the latter case their handicaps will only go up automatically 0.1 at a time, and the Annual Review generally seems to ignore the problem!

Like I said, we've been here before

 

[delc]

Well either there have only been 4 or 5 comps or one of you is posting twaddle!

Can we have the facts please?

How many Senior comps this summer season? How many were R/O?

@Del. The system is doing exactly what it was designed to do - rating you against the rest of the competition population! However, there is an assumption that the competition population is statistically equivalent to that with which you 'normally' play! If that's not the case, then distortions are indeed possible! It's a 'problem' that Ladies have actually had for quite a while - where smaller fields are the main cause. Mixed pairs competitions then seem to be using 2 different handicap systems, though this is often also hidden simply by the amount of variance in any player's rounds day by day!

I have checked back through our club's competition results for this year so far, and out of 14 seniors qualifiers 6 were reductions only. Only twice did the CSS equal the SSS of 71 and the average CSS was just under 73. In general club comps the CSS is normally 71 or 70, so there is a significant difference!

Many of our senior players would have handicaps which were 0.6 higher without all these R/O's!

 

[Slab]

Perhaps a bit like a driving license expiring for OAPs a golf handicap could expire when the player reaches the seniors age

Old handicap cancelled after birthday and player has to start fresh with 3 cards put in to determine a new handicap in order to continue playing in comps

Which if any group of players would lose out if this was implemented?

 

[delc]

Perhaps a bit like a driving license expiring for OAPs a golf handicap could expire when the player reaches the seniors age

Old handicap cancelled after birthday and player has to start fresh with 3 cards put in to determine a new handicap in order to continue playing in comps

Which if any group of players would lose out if this was implemented?

Nothing wrong with the current system if it could be made a bit more responsive to changes in form! :mmm:

 

[Slab]

Nothing wrong with the current system if it could be made a bit more responsive to changes in form! :mmm:

Form is only temporary though and the system deals with that unless the player removes themselves from many comp opportunities that will lead to a +/- adjustment

I think you suggested this was an age thing leading to a deterioration in ability, so there'll be no return to 'form'

 

[delc]

Form is only temporary though and the system deals with that unless the player removes themselves from many comp opportunities that will lead to a +/- adjustment

I think you suggested this was an age thing leading to a deterioration in ability, so there'll be no return to 'form'

Exactly! :thup:

 

[bobmac]

many of the players have handicaps which due to the aging process they are no longer able to play to.

When you say 'many' do you mean a few, alot or most of them?

 

[chellie]

When you say 'many' do you mean a few, alot or most of them?

Probably less than two. Same as those who want the hole bigger.

 

[delc]

When you say 'many' do you mean a few, alot or most of them?

Probably the over 65's and definitely the over 70's, who collectively make up more than half of our Seniors section. I accept that recent retirees from work do have a potential to improve, due to more time to practice and play (if their wives let them!), but they are the exception to the rule.

 

[bobmac]

Probably the over 65's and definitely the over 70's, who collectively make up more than half of our Seniors section.

Could you not have age divisions........under 65s and over 65s?
Seniors and super seniors

Then they'd all be in the same boat.
It doesn't matter if the winning score is 70 or 75, the lowest score will still win

 

[delc]

Could you not have age divisions........under 65s and over 65s?
Seniors and super seniors

Then they'd all be in the same boat.
It doesn't matter if the winning score is 70 or 75, the lowest score will still win

Isn't the whole idea of the golf handicapping system that anybody can play with an equal chance of winning? If the system works properly, there should be no need for age divisions, at least not for handicapped competitions. Scratch competitions maybe.

 

[bobmac]

Isn't the whole idea of the golf handicapping system that anybody can play with an equal chance of winning?

So why do clubs have handicap divisions?

 

[Slab]

Isn't the whole idea of the golf handicapping system that anybody can play with an equal chance of winning? If the system works properly, there should be no need for age divisions, at least not for handicapped competitions. Scratch competitions maybe.

I assume that any change in playing ability due to age is (in most cases) a gradual decline, so just to put a figure on it say its 1-2 shots a year increase in average gross, and with H/C increases at 0.1 a regular player will get a higher handicap roughly in line with their declining ability, whats the problem... unless players restrict themselves to comp types/formats where increases are less likely

Ok there's bound to be instances of illness/injury which might mean there's exceptions where players cant decline gracefully but the system is designed for the majority

 

[delc]

I assume that any change in playing ability due to age is (in most cases) a gradual decline, so just to put a figure on it say its 1-2 shots a year increase in average gross, and with H/C increases at 0.1 a regular player will get a higher handicap roughly in line with their declining ability, whats the problem... unless players restrict themselves to comp types/formats where increases are less likely

Ok there's bound to be instances of illness/injury which might mean there's exceptions where players cant decline gracefully but the system is designed for the majority

We do seem to have a Catch 22 situation in our club, where some of the older players do not play in qualifiers because they feel they have no chance of winning, but because of this their handicaps can't go up! Even if they do enter one occasionally and it turns out to be a 'Reductions Only' comp, the result is the same!