Politicians

[mancity101]

Is it just me or do politicans miss out a large percentage of the population when discussing tax/benefits/finances??
my example;
Often we here of families/people getting benefits/child benefits and tax credits, often those in receipt of these, especially tax credits havent ever worked or paid tax. Politicians seem to miss the single people, or the childless working couple, on mid-low income who are unable to claim tax credits.
My suggestion would be ...if you as a person or couple work and pay tax for a say 5 year period you then qualify for a tax free period of say 3 - 6 mths...incentive to those who work and get nil back from the state,
Any thoughts on this????

 

[USER1999]

Nice idea, never going to happen. The people who get taxed the most are the middle classes, and always will be. Once you give something to them, who's going to pay for it?

 

[mancity101]

easy way to cut down government spending on benefits....make it 6 mths on dole after that the job centre put you in a job, or you have nil income, and stop daytime tv!

 

[surefire]

I always thought a better way to control politicians would be to link their pay and benefits to their approval rating amongst their constituents.

That way if they are voted in and do what they promised they will be highly rated and rewarded. If however they lie and cause trouble they will get a low rating and thus a lower salary.

Indirectly this should stop the problems mentioned above, because it seems to be a big issue amongst people, and so will reflect in ratings people give when MPs have promised to reduce spending in this area.

 

[mono217]

There all arseholes who try and get away with lying about everything and everything. They said the other week put up student fees because people cant afford things in the econemy wait a minute students wont be able to then. The ecenomy will just go down and down and puming more money in to it like the £185,000,000,0 just pumped in. And lending money to banks that dont need it.

 

[USER1999]

The thing is with having polititians having to satisfy their constituents is.....

Sometimes decisions have to be made that are in the countries interest, but not in the general publics. ie: we would all love free beer and fags, but this isn't in the interests of the country if the NHS has to pick up the bill.

They aren't going to be able to please every one.

That said, if there is a manifesto people voted for, then there should be some level of expectation that it will be acted on once the party is in power.

And who the heck voted for Gordon Brown as PM? Yep, someone must have voted labour (or Tony, as we can call it), but the days of voting for the party and not the man have long gone.

 

[surefire]

Murph, I agree and can see that.

I was kind of thinking about them having to satisfy against the promises they made when voted in.
So they would be scored against their manifesto rather than just scored for being a good bloke and giving everyone free beer, fags, a car or whatever!

Obviously like all systems it could be abused, but at least it brings some accountability to the public back. Currently all that can be done is you can vote someone else in years later, by which time the gravy train has well and truly been ridden to the terminus!

 

[Parmo]

Tax credits where a great idea and good work working couples as a top up, but when they allowed people not to work or work less than 16 hours to claim them it went out of the window. No worries the Tories will get rid of them and abolish the 50p tax rate.

 

[drawboy]

Politicians constantly miss out the very people who pay the most into their coffers, working middle income families can look after themselves and continue to fill up the chancellors pocket so he can dole out the money to the work shy dossers who cannot be bothered to get their a**es out of bed in the morning.On the other hand the lazy gets do tend to pay some of their dole money back in VAT on Stella,Fags and bookies tax.

 

[Yerman]

Remember "Taxes are the subs you pay to live in a civilised society"

 

[haplesshacker]

easy way to cut down government spending on benefits....make it 6 mths on dole after that the job centre put you in a job, or you have nil income, and stop daytime tv!

Having been made redundent 8 months ago, I feel slightly quaified to comment on this

You only get 6 months Job Seekers Allownce of £60 something a week. I also have to declare to the Inland Reveue as to how much I was going to earn this year for tax credit purposes. If I said less than last tax year, pro rata on when I would of expected to get another job, I'd receive nothing. Yet I'm on JSA of £60 a week! If however, I'd said for example £6k, assuming it took longer to find a job, then I'd get tax credits. But, and here's the rub. If I'd earnt more, I'd have to pay it all back next April. but the money would have been spent surviving the out of work period.

Sod that. I'll wait and see what I'm owed, if anything next April, rather than me owe them money.

I was lucky (or sensible), I had redundency insurance on my mortgage, and we have savings. Which is why I don't get a bean after 6 months of being unemployed. Bearing in mind that the savings came from taxed income and taxed from sale of assets. CGT.

Even when setting up the business during some of the 6 months of JSA, they only cared if I had applied for 2 jobs a week.

Whilst I agree that there are a percentage of 'milkers' on the system, recent times has thrown a lot of good people into a world they just don't understand. Add that to the red tape and beracaucy (sp) of the public sector. It's no real surprise that there are a lot of people who are very frustrated with the system.

From recent experiance, it ain't easy on the dole for a lot of those that find themselves on it through no choice of their own.

The system needs tidying up, for sure. But not everyone on it is a daytime tv watching, Stella drinking, gambler. Earlier this year, hardly a week went by without someone on this forum being laid off.

That is why, I'll vote for the party that 'fesses up to the current problem and has a plausible plan for sorting it.

Apologies it's another long one.

But as others have said. It's those stuck in the middle that get the worst deal.

 

[Herbie]

One of the reasons Tax is such a problem is that many tax policies are based partly on public emotion rather than a complete understanding of Tax/Nat ins, why its paid, who pays it and how much.

Is it fair to condem a upper middle worker who pays more tax after working 30 yrs than most workers will contribute in twice that time, and through illness finds themselves on hard times and uses their assets to live off before ever claiming anything, but who does eventually claim all benefits they are rightly entitled to as well as still paying tax on their various pensions........is it right such a person should fall into the hunted and labled category that so many of the naive are quick to place them. There are thousands of reasons people claim benefits and most cases are justly entitled, but because of the minority of long term scroungers and the emotive and aggressive attitude of a naive public, others will suffer when the witch hunt of the few begins.

There is an argument that the lower earners and middle classes contribute the biggest part of their earnings to the government, but they also contribute in vat also.

If there is a way to catch out the deliberate scrounger who has never contributed much then I am all for it but the trouble is that emotions cloud judgement and ignorance is often emotions partner. getting the ballance right and going after the right groups is the difficult bit.

One point earlier about '6 months then pay them nothing' idea, is fine if it works with every case, but in reality it wont, what you will get is further manipulation of the system, criminality in claims and other poverty related crime in the long run costing everyone more. You cannot undo a society once you have created it, you can only destroy one with thoughtless heavy handedness.

 

[SS2]

There is no point complaining. The political systems in this world exist to serve the politicians first and it'll always be like that. Have a revolution or start a class war or whatever but it won't make any difference.

Not like I'm being negative or anything......

 

[Tommo21]

A good mate of mine, in his early forties with a partner and no kids, said the same thing about how little he gets. He pays for everyone else’s child benefit, tax credits and so on………..it’s a fair point.

My good lady was on incapacity benefit and came off it herself. She could still get it if she wanted but wanted to get out of the spiral herself. We even moved house to be close to her work which in turn helped the situation.

On the other hand I know a guy who’s one lazy bar steward, claims everything under the sun, runs about in a v6 four by four, full sky package, regular carry outs and it pi$$es me off while the genuine people who really want to work struggle.

Another thing is the tax credit scheme. Some of that comes about by employers who pay the lowest of the low while filling their own boots indirectly from our taxes.

 

[Herbie]

A good mate of mine, in his early forties with a partner and no kids, said the same thing about how little he gets. He pays for everyone else’s child benefit, tax credits and so on………..it’s a fair point.

My good lady was on incapacity benefit and came off it herself. She could still get it if she wanted but wanted to get out of the spiral herself. We even moved house to be close to her work which in turn helped the situation.

On the other hand I know a guy who’s one lazy bar steward, claims everything under the sun, runs about in a v6 four by four, full sky package, regular carry outs and it pi$$es me off while the genuine people who really want to work struggle.

Another thing is the tax credit scheme. Some of that comes about by employers who pay the lowest of the low while filling their own boots indirectly from our taxes.

I cant really fault your comments Tommo, but thats just another example of how a great social idea in a caring sharing society falls flat on its arse because a few, just a few who dont want to do their bit and probably never will.

 

[Parmo]

Politicians constantly miss out the very people who pay the most into their coffers, working middle income families can look after themselves and continue to fill up the chancellors pocket so he can dole out the money to the work shy dossers who cannot be bothered to get their a**es out of bed in the morning.On the other hand the lazy gets do tend to pay some of their dole money back in VAT on Stella,Fags and bookies tax.

I take it you mean the middle income families who claim all taxes back through child benefits and tax credits, them ones?

Ignorance must be bliss.