Playing with (much) better players

[One Planer]

I've thought like this for ages, don't know why, just seems to make sense

Exactly. It definatley changed my preception of how to make a score.

 

[Hobbit]

The best tip he gave me on the day was "Work from the green back, not the other way round"

This is one of the most important tips for planning your way around the course.

If you stand at the green you can see where you want the ball to land, and roughly where you want to play from on the fairway. If you walk back down the fairway, you can find the area you want to be playing from and also look back towards the tee. Once at the tee, look up the hole. All the danger you see when you usually approach the tee from the previous hole is now no longer relevant because you know where is safest on the fairway, inc yardage.

Now, for example, a 360yd hole that you normally play driver wedge might actually be a safer bet if you played 3 wood 7-8 iron. And sometimes, depending on how guarded the green is it might be a driver, wedge & chip on. Our old first saw you dead left, right or long, a postage stamp green, but dropped 5yds short would give you an easy run up the green - the choice was a dodgy reg par, with a chance of bogey or worse, or a chip on par and bogey at worst.

 

[Alex1975]

This is one of the most important tips for planning your way around the course.

If you stand at the green you can see where you want the ball to land, and roughly where you want to play from on the fairway. If you walk back down the fairway, you can find the area you want to be playing from and also look back towards the tee. Once at the tee, look up the hole. All the danger you see when you usually approach the tee from the previous hole is now no longer relevant because you know where is safest on the fairway, inc yardage.

Now, for example, a 360yd hole that you normally play driver wedge might actually be a safer bet if you played 3 wood 7-8 iron. And sometimes, depending on how guarded the green is it might be a driver, wedge & chip on. Our old first saw you dead left, right or long, a postage stamp green, but dropped 5yds short would give you an easy run up the green - the choice was a dodgy reg par, with a chance of bogey or worse, or a chip on par and bogey at worst.

Enjoying the post and not questioning any of it but I do have a question/comment: A few weeks/month ago I started playing 3 wood off some tees, usually tight or short holes. My buddy who although not a great golfer has played a huge amount of golf with me kept asking my why I was doing it. "Your so strong with your driver Al, why would you just give away yardage". I explained that I was looking for the safest option and he told me that in his opinion I was safer with the driver than I was with the 3 wood as I am more confident with it. He was probably correct. Is this just because he and I are handicap golfers of low skill and actually need the yardage or maybe because I need more practice with other clubs off the tee? There is only two holes where I may run out of room and that will take hard fairways or wind.

Am I conditioned to hit it as far as I can off the tee and see what I have left or do I need the distance as often as possible. With practice would a hybrid or 3 wood be a safer option? Am I not just making the first shot easy but making the second shot hard?

260 driver plus or minus some
220 3 wood plus or minus a little
200 hybrid plus or minus a little
180 4 iron

 

[One Planer]

Enjoying the post and not questioning any of it but I do have a question/comment: A few weeks/month ago I started playing 3 wood off some tees, usually tight or short holes. My buddy who although not a great golfer but has played a huge amount of golf with me kept asking my why I was doing it. "Your so strong with your driver Al, why would you just give away yardage". I explained that I was looking for the safest option and he told me that in his opinion I was safer with the driver than I was with the 3 wood as I am more confident with it. He was probably correct. Is this just because he and I are handicap golfers of low skill and actually need the yardage or maybe because I need more practice with other clubs off the tee? There is only two holes where I may run out of room and that will take hard fairways or wind.

Am I conditioned to hit it as far as I can off the tee and see what I have left or do I need the distance as often as possible. With practace would a hybrid or 3 wood be a safer option?

260 driver plus or minus some
220 3 wood plus or minus a little
200 hybrid plus or minus a little
180 4 iron

I see what you mean. You could take the previous Major as an example.

Short'ish (by tour standards) par 4's where pro's are hitting mid iron off the tee to give them a safe shot.

No doubt they could take driver and not give up the yardage, but if it were to g wrong, you bring a high number into play.

If you're a pretty straight driver and you consider it a stong part of your game then why not.

As I said, if you play the hole on it's merits, the club off the tee should pick itself, be it a driver, 3 wood or a mid iron.

 

[Alex1975]

Ye you know I would like to play "smarter" I am just not sure if there is a way for me to at the moment. That said Science Boys post about his 3 aims really interested me along these lines.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My last medal 8 under CSS was done in the company of a 4 h/capper. He didn't play well (to me) and NR'd on 17th when he lost a ball. At which point to my amazement he noted that he'd only dropped 3 to that point! After shaking hands on 18th he said to me that I should play with the lower handicap guys more often as it would improve my scoring - as it had done that day. Nothing consciously to do with how he had played as I didn;t think he'd played that well.

I know all the low handicap boys well and they often arrange to meet up and play together and if I wanted to join them they'd welcome me no bother. Has made me wonder...but I can't abandon my buddies - well maybe occasionally I will...

 

[Fader]

Theres a lot to be said for playing with low hanidcap golfers but for all the ones that have great course planning there are others that just rely on their talent.

My focus going forward is to do as many mention on here and thats play from the green backwards, i'm still going through the learning process on this and it evades me on a few holes where I don't make the conscious effort to do so like last week kind of went through the normal motions for first 3 holes and started 6,6,6! Then holes 4 through 10 I played in level par as I made the effort to play from green to tee! then slipped again toward end of the round but even that go me round in +1 to handicap.

So like many on here thats what I will take from it, but i'd also love to teach this to my brother who plays off 1. Now he doesn't do that because of great course management if anything thats the worst part of his game. He hits it miles, has the most amazing tough around the greens and holes a stupid amount of putts and even says if he plays more conservative he shoots better scores but he likes to be aggresive and pays no attention to danger he just sees the flag and hits at it everytime..

Oh to have that talent and a good golfing brain.... Best stick with trying to develop a golfing brain as i'll never be long!

 

[Alex1975]

Theres a lot to be said for playing with low hanidcap golfers but for all the ones that have great course planning there are others that just rely on their talent.

My focus going forward is to do as many mention on here and thats play from the green backwards, i'm still going through the learning process on this and it evades me on a few holes where I don't make the conscious effort to do so like last week kind of went through the normal motions for first 3 holes and started 6,6,6! Then holes 4 through 10 I played in level par as I made the effort to play from green to tee! then slipped again toward end of the round but even that go me round in +1 to handicap.

So like many on here thats what I will take from it, but i'd also love to teach this to my brother who plays off 1. Now he doesn't do that because of great course management if anything thats the worst part of his game. He hits it miles, has the most amazing tough around the greens and holes a stupid amount of putts and even says if he plays more conservative he shoots better scores but he likes to be aggresive and pays no attention to danger he just sees the flag and hits at it everytime..

Oh to have that talent and a good golfing brain.... Best stick with trying to develop a golfing brain as i'll never be long!

Yep, I play with Fundy when I can and he is a strong player and can go at anything with just about anything, its how I would play if I was that long. It can make me swing rather quick in his company though

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Good thing thinking a hole backwards. So get to chipping area and practice getting up and down in two.

Let's say you get that down to let's say 50% - then you know that what you need to do is get your ball to somewhere on or around the green (not in a bunker) in regulation and you'll have a good chance of getting down in two. Does that sound hard? Well it's around a 9 handicap ability. Easy game.

But it isn't that easy.

So - assuming 50% U&D from on or around, aim to get on or around the green in regulation 9 times and on or around the green in no more than one over regulation the rest - around 18 handicap ability!. And then work on improving your 'on or around the green stats'

All based up your short game and getting on or around the green without disasters - and that's where course management comes into play

 

[Simbo]

A plus handicapper has stood in your shoes, he's had the same decisions you have had to make, he's played the same mistakes you have played, the difference is he's learned from them and practised and worked hard to get where he is. They actually make it look quite boring sometimes they are that good, club choices and where they hit there shots are crucial, they have the ability to hit it to a certain side of the fairway to open up a green etc etc, they keep the ball away from trouble, but the way they play the game doesn't always suit higher handicappers, while they play a 6 iron from the tee then a full 9 iron, this accounts for maybe a 300 yard hole, this is a good choice for them, if a higher handicapper hits a 6 iron off the tee, chances are he won't hit it as far and be left with a 7iron and we all know a 9 is easier to hit than a 7. So his options then become-A- hit a four from the tee to compensate for the difference in distance to leave him a 9 in, 4 iron is one of the hardest clubs in the bag to hit, is he really that much better with his 4 than his driver????... Or hit the 6 and play the 7 in, how accurate is he with his 7??? And how well does he hit it?? Where's the bigger risk missing the fairway or missing the green???? The plus capper has been there done that, tried them all and missed them all, but gained the xperience of making the safest journey into the hole.
Plus cappers are a different breed!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Playing with the guy from Hawkeye's "almost perfection" thread tomorrow so interesting to watch him. I know he isn't a monster hitter so interesting to see where he makes the score. I like the idea of working back from the green to the tee.

 

[Dave B]

Alex

On my local course we have a stroke index 2 515 yd par 5. It has out of bounds right, trees to the left and a diagonal ditch increasing from 365-405 yds to the right so if you fade a ball trying to clear the ditch, (the slight slope promotes this), you are in trouble.

Most players use a driver and when it's good, it's good however if you're not accurate and on the fairway he hole can easily become an 8 or 9 for some players.

I take a 3 wood and 3 wood and although some players think I should hit a driver and hybrid however the 3 & 3 combination work for me and that's what you have to find.

Going back to the original post I played with an old guy who made it look so simple. He hit his driver 220 straight every time, is irons and hybrids were straight down the middle and his approach shots and putting were pin point accurate. After finishing in the low 80's on less than 10 over, he told me he was 80 and used to play off 5 when he was younger.

After we finished he told me that on my shorter pitching shots I needed to take a shorter back swing and accelerate through the ball and showed me where I'd been going wrong. My pitching has improved no end since and it was a game I will never forget as he kept it simple and showed that age isn't something we should be worrying about so long as we can still get out on the course and enjoy it.

 

[Imurg]

I rarely get to play with anyone "better" than me....

PLayed with a 2 hcp at the GM Centenary do at Hanbury and with Scotty Tom at the Grove Powerplay bash.

That's about it for the last 5 years...............

Can't remember what it's like....

 

[Foxholer]

I've played with and been around with a few Professionals, Touring or otherwise, and some Scratch and Plus handicappers as well as Cat 1s of long standing and young guys there or headed there or better.

Looking from the 50yards or more I tend to be behind most of them, only a very few of their swings are really 'perfect'. The really good guys also rarely hit two shots the same, quite deliberately - while we hackers are searching for some method of hitting consecutive shots the same! The Pros and the up and coming guys who are going to make it, also have a 'desperation' to make Par that surprises, though an ability to simply concentrate on the next hole if they don't make it. The naturally talented ones that aren't going to make it tend to lose concentration after poor shots while the guns increase theirs!

 

[gazrow]

I have stopped playing with a friend who plays off 3 as he doesn't seem to enjoy the round and rushes all the way around!

 

[Rooter]

Almost the opposite to the original post, I play a lot with proper chompers, I mean worse than me! And it does effect my game, find myself playing worse. When I do get to play with better players 10 and under my game improves! I need to lee better company I think! Played 9 with my pro as a playing lesson and hit 2 birdies and 5 pars! Was +2 for 9 holes!! Played a few days later and shot in the 90's...

Time to find some me buddies I think!

 

[harpo_72]

I was on the practice ground with one of the clubs scratch players he only hits a 9 iron 130 yards, so you can work the distances up from there. However he is accurate and distance is meaningless without accuracy. There is another +1 golfer who hits it a country mile (125mph driver swing speed) however he can be wayward. The point is there are several ways to score, you can over power them or you can play accurately. So saying that the low boys have a distance advantage over you is wrong unless you can only hit a driver 180 yards etc ... What you have to do is be committed to your shot, you are in an era where you get distances easily so spending time on the range hitting committed shots and measuring them and then taking them to the course is really no excuse for poor golf. The only excuse for poor golf is not putting the work in and expecting a miracle ...
If my hands would let me and my wife understood I would hit a thousand balls a day and chip a thousand more ... This body is just not willing