Playing with (much) better players

[jason6r]

Ive had quite a bit of time on my hands this year (gardening leave since November 28th) and have really worked hard on getting my handicap down, including a full club and swing analysis, lessons and loads of practice and competitive rounds. Whilst I have made decent progress, I was amazed how much I learned through playing one round with some of the best players at my club. I expected them to be great players - one of the guys I went round with is off +2 - but I just watched how he concentrated and focused throughout the whole round and how he went through the same pre-shot routine every shot for the full 18 (unlike my usual focus hard for the first half a dozen holes or so and then revert to bad habits) and how he never really seemed to be forcing it.

On occasions I out drove them, got my approach shots closer, holed out better but in terms of consistency, I was nowhere in comparison. They very rarely got into trouble because they were smart as well as good and made pars regularly but attacked the birdie holes aggressively. A great mindset and one I am trying to adopt but obviously tempered to my level of ability.

And I noticed they gave themselves a bit more room at address and when I copied this by standing a little further from the ball, my driving problems disappeared and my ball striking and accuracy improved no end. Pity my golf pro never noticed during our course of lessons... A very valuable round in terms of learning how to play! I'd recommend stepping out of your comfort zone and playing with the best players you can from time to time if you want to progress.

Anyone else had a similarly enlightening/educational experience through playing with a top player at his/her club?

 

[woody69]

I regularly play with someone who is off 5 (so pretty good but not mind blowing), but once he went round in -4 and it was a delight to watch. It was effortless how his iron shots flew into the green to within a few feet. He has passed on a few tips to me that have definitely helped my golf for sure.

 

[Birchy]

Ive found this too. When you play with a top player everything they do just makes sense and seems to have some sort of plan to it. They don't seem to have brain farts like us mere mortals.

Funny this thread has reared up as im out first in the comp in the morning with the assistant professional who is off scratch. Makes the game look stupidly easy.

 

[gdc]

Play with as many good players as possible and you will pick up something different up from nearly all of them.
If you want to know how they play a certain type of shot, ask them and I'm sure they'd be more than willing to help.

Along time ago I was practicing chipping with the club assistant - he showed me how to play the 'Phil Michelson' flop shot (full swing with lob wedge opened up to nearly flat).
Over the years it has been a great shot to have in the bag.
Last time I played it in anger was in our Club scratch open event last week on the 18th - had to get up and down for a par from about 20 yards to a raised green with the pin just over a bunker. I opened up the blade on my lob wedge and with a full swing thinned it into the bushes on the other side of the green and took an 8.

 

[gregbwfc]

Ive found this too. When you play with a top player everything they do just makes sense and seems to have some sort of plan to it. They don't seem to have brain farts like us mere mortals.

Funny this thread has reared up as im out first in the comp in the morning with the assistant professional who is off scratch. Makes the game look stupidly easy.

Don't mention it mate, knew you'd been paying attention :rofl:

 

[Birchy]

Don't mention it mate, knew you'd been paying attention :rofl:

I was waiting for a smart Alec response but I was expecting it to be Peter :rofl:

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Ive found this too. When you play with a top player everything they do just makes sense and seems to have some sort of plan to it. They don't seem to have brain farts like us mere mortals.

Funny this thread has reared up as im out first in the comp in the morning with the assistant professional who is off scratch. Makes the game look stupidly easy.

Surely it's nothing to do with thinking clearer, it's just hitting better shots more often. It's easy to look like your not making mental mistakes when the ball goes where you want it to all the time.

 

[Birchy]

Surely it's nothing to do with thinking clearer, it's just hitting better shots more often. It's easy to look like your not making mental mistakes when the ball goes where you want it to all the time.

They never take on any stupid shots and make the right decision of what type of shot to play almost every single time.

Obviously their execution of shots is superb too which helps

 

[HawkeyeMS]

They never take on any stupid shots and make the right decision of what type of shot to play almost every single time.

Obviously their execution of shots is superb too which helps

When you're playing off a plus handicap, you have a greater range of shots and a higher probability of trying to execute it and therefore you have a greater choice of shots to choose from.

Picture the situation where you have the choice of going for a Par 5 in two by carrying 200 yds of rough on the corner of a dogleg or laying up in the fairway leaving a wedge in.

For me, I could execute both of those shots, one would carry more risk than the other but I could easily execute both successfully most of the time. Neither of those is the wrong shot until I mess it up (I could try to layup and pull it into the clag just as easily as I could go for it and make the green). Once I've messed up, I bemoan the fact that I made the wrong choice when in fact I executed the shot poorly.

A plus h'capper has the same choices but is more likely to execute them with more consistency than me and therefore less likely to mess up and less likely to have been "deemed to have made the wrong choice.

So when you watch a plus h'capper play, it may look like he doesn't make the wrong choices and is thinking clearly when infact, he is thinking no more clearly than me, he's just executing his choices better than I am.

Hope that makes sense

 

[Region3]

I've played 3 or 4 times with a couple of mates off scratch and 2.

What I learnt (in comparison) is how short I hit the ball and my short game is rubbish.

 

[gregbwfc]

Hawkeye, pretty much applies to the "playing aggressively" and "50 yard shot" threads.
Folk with hcaps like mine and higher just hit more bad shots - we're inconsistent.
I don't know what I've done RIGHT when I hit a beauty

 

[TheClaw]

When you're playing off a plus handicap, you have a greater range of shots and a higher probability of trying to execute it and therefore you have a greater choice of shots to choose from.

Picture the situation where you have the choice of going for a Par 5 in two by carrying 200 yds of rough on the corner of a dogleg or laying up in the fairway leaving a wedge in.

For me, I could execute both of those shots, one would carry more risk than the other but I could easily execute both successfully most of the time. Neither of those is the wrong shot until I mess it up (I could try to layup and pull it into the clag just as easily as I could go for it and make the green). Once I've messed up, I bemoan the fact that I made the wrong choice when in fact I executed the shot poorly.

A plus h'capper has the same choices but is more likely to execute them with more consistency than me and therefore less likely to mess up and less likely to have been "deemed to have made the wrong choice.

So when you watch a plus h'capper play, it may look like he doesn't make the wrong choices and is thinking clearly when infact, he is thinking no more clearly than me, he's just executing his choices better than I am.

Hope that makes sense

Makes sense to me. I agree.

 

[Birchy]

When you're playing off a plus handicap, you have a greater range of shots and a higher probability of trying to execute it and therefore you have a greater choice of shots to choose from.

Picture the situation where you have the choice of going for a Par 5 in two by carrying 200 yds of rough on the corner of a dogleg or laying up in the fairway leaving a wedge in.

For me, I could execute both of those shots, one would carry more risk than the other but I could easily execute both successfully most of the time. Neither of those is the wrong shot until I mess it up (I could try to layup and pull it into the clag just as easily as I could go for it and make the green). Once I've messed up, I bemoan the fact that I made the wrong choice when in fact I executed the shot poorly.

A plus h'capper has the same choices but is more likely to execute them with more consistency than me and therefore less likely to mess up and less likely to have been "deemed to have made the wrong choice.

So when you watch a plus h'capper play, it may look like he doesn't make the wrong choices and is thinking clearly when infact, he is thinking no more clearly than me, he's just executing his choices better than I am.

Hope that makes sense

Agree with what your saying but they never seem to try and hit shots on the border of their ability (probably a 300 yard carry in their book) where I sometimes have the occasional moment where I decide im a plus handicapper and go for the virtually impossible

Its hard to learn much more off them because they hit it so good its a world away

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Agree with what your saying but they never seem to try and hit shots on the border of their ability (probably a 300 yard carry in their book) where I sometimes have the occasional moment where I decide im a plus handicapper and go for the virtually impossible

Its hard to learn much more off them because they hit it so good its a world away

Agreed, but when you're that good, you don't need to hit the hero shots

 

[One Planer]

Around this time last year I played as part of a four-ball with our scratch team. The lowest chap in the group was off 2. The other two played off 4.

To be honest, I wasn't the slightest bit interested in their swing, equipment, technique, driving or short game.

What I really wanted to see was how they managed the course. Club selections from tee's. Choosing a lay up based on where the pin is. Choosing an approach that gives the best miss. How they "think" their way around a course. These are the things I wanted to pick up from them.

I gauged as much info as I could. As it was a bounce game, I would often ask the odd question.

An example of this was the 2 handicapper hitting a 6 iron off the tee into a 302yard par 4. He basically said:

"Look at the layout of the hole. It runs down hill from the tee box to the green all the way, and beyond. The green runs away from you too from front to back. Hitting a 6 iron leaves me little more than a PW where I can control the spin and gain some control against it running away and through the green"

So idot here (me) says

"Why not just hit a fairway wood and chip on"

To which I got

"I could, but if I miss left or right I'm going to be in no mans land (As the fairway is lined with high conifers on both sides, pretty much all the way down). Finding the fairway, even taking an iron off the tee, gives the best chance at making birdie on this hole"

This was a complete different persepctive than mine. The best tip he gave me on the day was "Work from the green back, not the other way round"

It's stuck with me ever since.

 

[Birchy]

Agreed, but when you're that good, you don't need to hit the hero shots

I suppose your right. Every shot they hit looks easy . This thread is starting to make me feel even more useless :rofl:

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I suppose your right. Every shot they hit looks easy . This thread is starting to make me feel even more useless :rofl:

:rofl:

 

[Curls]

Playing against a team on Monday and their low guy is scratch, past county champion on numerous occasions, can't wait to see how he knocks it round.

Played with a guy recently who shot 4 over and it was very interesting to watch. I out drove him every time I hit the fairway, was definitely taking smaller clubs to the same distance, he was just very tidy and made so few mistakes, even when he did he recovered well.

Oh yeah, he was 11 years old, 4 foot tall and probably weighted about 4 stone.

 

[Hobbit]

I played against a 2 h'capper in a scratch matchplay a few weeks back. His short game was awesome. The number of times I thought I had him, only for him to sink a tramliner or chip in...

Higher handicappers I've played with comment on my short game, and how many good putts I sink. And, similarly, his short game was well ahead of mine. He recovered well from his mistakes, and took his opportunities really well.

If a low handicapper is 10% better than you off the tee and 10% better into the green and 10% better with the putter...

Oh, and best not mention my long game...

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Around this time last year I played as part of a four-ball with our scratch team. The lowest chap in the group was off 2. The other two played off 4.

To be honest, I wasn't the slightest bit interested in their swing, equipment, technique, driving or short game.

What I really wanted to see was how they managed the course. Club selections from tee's. Choosing a lay up based on where the pin is. Choosing an approach that gives the best miss. How they "think" their way around a course. These are the things I wanted to pick up from them.

I gauged as much info as I could. As it was a bounce game, I would often ask the odd question.

An example of this was the 2 handicapper hitting a 6 iron off the tee into a 302yard par 4. He basically said:

"Look at the layout of the hole. It runs down hill from the tee box to the green all the way, and beyond. The green runs away from you too from front to back. Hitting a 6 iron leaves me little more than a PW where I can control the spin and gain some control against it running away and through the green"

So idot here (me) says

"Why not just hit a fairway wood and chip on"

To which I got

"I could, but if I miss left or right I'm going to be in no mans land (As the fairway is lined with high conifers on both sides, pretty much all the way down). Finding the fairway, even taking an iron off the tee, gives the best chance at making birdie on this hole"

This was a complete different persepctive than mine. The best tip he gave me on the day was "Work from the green back, not the other way round"

It's stuck with me ever since.

I've thought like this for ages, don't know why, just seems to make sense