Playing on frozen courses

[Imurg]

OK its a lottery - we know that
Some hate it, some enjoy it

My question is..Should we be doing it?
There seems to be a split - almost equal numbers say you shouldn't even step on frozen grass as those that say it makes no difference.

Is there a definitive answer to this?

Lots of courses closed due to frost - they're losing revenue if it makes no difference, those that are open may be damaging their course to the detriment of revenue later in the year.....

 

[Pin-seeker]

All I know is I'm itching to get a round in,off work for 2wk but still plenty of snow about here.

 

[Jon321]

I just don't see the point. What do you gain from it. You dont get any real feedback. Same with temp greens, I'd rather not play than use them. The best part of the game for me is trying to hit the green and hole the putt.

 

[Imurg]

I just don't see the point. What do you gain from it. You dont get any real feedback. Same with temp greens, I'd rather not play than use them. The best part of the game for me is trying to hit the green and hole the putt.

To a large extent I agree but that's not the question....

Are we or are we not damaging the course..?

 

[patricks148]

we play on the course when its frozen, but are encouraged not to walk on the greens as such, so there must be a reason for that.

Playing golf on a frozen course is just a walk and some banter with mates as far as I'm concerned, its not to be taken seriously IMO

 

[guest100718]

To a large extent I agree but that's not the question....

Are we or are we not damaging the course..?

No I dont think so. grass is quite hardy and soon recovers in the spring.

 

[Fish]

To a large extent I agree but that's not the question....

Are we or are we not damaging the course..?

I doubt it to a large extent, you won't be taking divots, more a case of picking the balls off the fairway after sitting them up nicely with a preferred lie, or use a fairway mat, not bothered about putting on temps over the winter but good to keep the swing going tee to green, whether it be a temp or not.

Even in normal weather just as much potential damage gets done when large divots are not replaced and the root system is destroyed, people don't replace them or carry seed bags so I see little difference other than there's no growth under 6-8 degrees but as I say, very few divots would be taken with hard frozen fairways so crack on!

 

[rosecott]

We have never had a problem with fairways and greens recovering from sustained frosty conditions. The only stipulation our Course Manager makes is that we should avoid, as far as possible, taking buggies or trollies onto frozen fairways.

 

[Foxholer]

Damage to greens depends on how 'deep' the frost is. If only on the surface (air frost) then there is not really any damage. If, however, the frost extends into the ground (ground frost) the root will be frozen. If the temperature is such that the soil isn't frozen too, then balls pitching on the green will kill the grass in that pitch mark by crushing the frozen stems/roots.

So a delicate call for Greenkeepers during peak demand times, as they should err on the side of caution! Golf Club Breakfasts are a great way to spend the time waiting for the temperature to rise sufficiently to play!

 

[louise_a]

you really can hit forum distances on frozen fairways, when the ball just runs and runs.

 

[CMAC]

Damage to greens depends on how 'deep' the frost is. If only on the surface (air frost) then there is not really any damage. If, however, the frost extends into the ground (ground frost) the root will be frozen. If the temperature is such that the soil isn't frozen too, then balls pitching on the green will kill the grass in that pitch mark by crushing the frozen stems/roots.

So a delicate call for Greenkeepers during peak demand times, as they should err on the side of caution! Golf Club Breakfasts are a great way to spend the time waiting for the temperature to rise sufficiently to play!

frost is the only dry reason Gleneagles closes a course, and they are making over £400 per Tee time 4 ball for non members.

I also find playing on rock hard frosty courses as much fun as playing in a car park.

 

[Foxholer]

frost is the only dry reason Gleneagles closes a course, and they are making over £400 per Tee time 4 ball for non members.

I also find playing on rock hard frosty courses as much fun as playing in a car park.

Likewise Wentworth! And they are making 3 times that! :mmm:

It's not actually about the actual Golf though at this time of the year!

 

[Davey247]

For me I dont mind playing on a frozen course. In winter, I'm on the course for the banter and dont take it seriously anyway so although its a lottery you just have to laugh at balls that bounce straight left/right into hazards.

As for the course, I think least damage is done when is a really hard frost. The problems come when greens start to thaw and crack/mash up under foot.

 

[SVB]

Damage to greens depends on how 'deep' the frost is. If only on the surface (air frost) then there is not really any damage. If, however, the frost extends into the ground (ground frost) the root will be frozen. If the temperature is such that the soil isn't frozen too, then balls pitching on the green will kill the grass in that pitch mark by crushing the frozen stems/roots.

Our greenkeeper sent a note out last year - to develop the point above, it was about the depth of the frost as the concern was that when the ground (and therefore roots) were frozen but the weather was sunny / warn enough to deforst the top 1/2 inch or so, then a shearing action would take place when the green was walked / played on effectivly shearing the roots off the grass plants as you walk across it so had a potential to ruin a green very easily.

Therefore, given that was the concern a surface frost was no issue nor was a deep frost that remained all day, the 'danger' time was a deep frost with top layer defrosted which is the only time we always go to temps.

 

[need_my_wedge]

For years we would drop top a temp "green" at the first sign of frost. Not really a green, more a hole in the front fringe. This year we took the steps of preparing temp greens near each hole at the start of the season, they have been kept as GUR and mowed and looked after in the hope of providing better temp greens this year. We recently had a new head greenkeeper start, he has some good credentials behind him, and his aim is to keep the course open and on the main greens throughout the winter. He has put a temp hole towards the front of every green and capped them with a plastic cover. The process being that first night of frost, the pins will remain as they were, if the frost persists, then the greenkeepers will switch straight over to the front holes, thus keeping the green open whilst reducing wear and tear on the main part of the greens. From this I presume that he thinks it's fairly safe to be playing greens in the frost.

 

[Scrindle]

I would love to get the same sort of question answered scientifically about hedgehog wheels on trollies. I don't think they make a damned difference. If anything I think they cause more damage, particularly when I see hedgehog spikes all over the fringes of a green.

 

[Fyldewhite]

St Annes Old Links down the road from me (Open qualifier) never uses temp greens. They are the best in the area too in the summer. Yet other courses seem to go to temps at the first sign of frost. Is it the type of grass, the length of winter cut, long ingrained myths or what???? there must be a reasoned logic why some courses do and some don't.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I have no idea what the right answer is but that isn't my job. If the course manager sees fit to leave the greens open, I'll play on them, if he doesn't I won't.

 

[Fish]

I would love to get the same sort of question answered scientifically about hedgehog wheels on trollies. I don't think they make a damned difference. If anything I think they cause more damage, particularly when I see hedgehog spikes all over the fringes of a green.

I think the idea behind the Hedgehog wheels for electric trolleys is to stop the wheels spinning and kidding which destroys the grass & roots, cant see spikes causing damage when you think how we Hollow tine everywhere?

 

[rob_golf1]

Tried to play yesterday. Frozen greens, tees and fairways. Only managed to play three holes - (although they were more like paint buckets). Bit of a shame - but we were given a voucher to return at any time during the better weather! Happy days!