Playing Multiple Formats - Which Takes Precedence?

[Grizzly]

At my club, role ups play a slightly odd but actually very rewarding hybrid format - we go off in four balls and play individual stableford AND pairs matchplay. The matchplay decides who chips into the drinks kitty for the group, the stableford who takes the little bit of money that is usually left over at the end. It works really well because even if you have 2-3 bad holes early on, you are still playing for something for most of the round.

Here comes my query, which was raised by a new member last week. In a tight match, I went to help my (matchplay) partner read a mid length putt, as I am allowed to do in a matchplay - which was challenged on the basis that we were also playing a stableford competition which I and the new member notionally still had a chance to win.

Now I know the answer starts with "never play with him again" but in rules terms, help me out?

 

[fundy]

The answer you will get is you cant play multiple formats......

Most clubs Ive been at roll-ups are like this (in the days where not all cards were entered for handicap) so the matchplay took precedence, i expect in the day and age of cards going in it should be the other way round (but probably isnt at most clubs)

 

[Deleted member 35504]

The stableford takes priority as that's the main comp.

The fourball is the bit of fun in addition. It's commonplace to do this, and it's commonplace that you can't really help each other as you're all primarily competing individually.

 

[Slab]

while its not recommended its totally fine to play stroke play and match play together

as said above the strokeplay rules take priority

 

[Deleted member 29109]

If it’s just a roll up and not counting towards HC then crack on. It doesn’t matter.

 

[salfordlad]

This is the official guidance - Committee Procedures 6C(11)
Combining Match Play and Stroke Play
Combining match play and stroke play is discouraged as certain Rules are substantially different between the two forms of play. But if players either request to combine the two forms of play or, having done so on their own, ask for a ruling, the Committee should make its best efforts to support the players.
a. When players request to combine match play and stroke play
If a Committee allows players to play a match while competing in a stroke-play competition, the players should be told to apply the Rules for stroke play. For example, no concessions are allowed and if one player plays out of turn, the other does not have the option of recalling the stroke.
b. When players request a ruling having combined match play and stroke play
When players request a ruling in a situation where they have combined match play and stroke play, the Committee should apply the Rules of Golf as they would apply to each of match play and stroke play, where possible. For example, if one player did not complete a hole for whatever reason then they are disqualified from the stroke-play competition for a breach of Rule 3.3c. But for Stableford, Maximum Score and Par/Bogey see Rules 21.1c, 21.2c and 21.3c respectively.

 

[jim8flog]

Stop playing holes match play and start playing better ball Stableford and play your own game concentrating on the Stableford score.

In this scenario BB stableford is much better because games go all the way to the 18th very often.

 

[Steven Rules]

Can we turn to the issue of advice please?

Discussion so far has centred on the advisability (or otherwise) of combining stroke play and match play formats. Committee Procedures 6 tells us that stroke play rules should take precedence. The discussion has not so far canvassed the substantive question of provision of advice in concurrent singles and four-ball formats - be that in match play or stroke play.

The current Rules (Clarification 23.7/1) explicitly permit partners to provide advice to each other when concurrent four-ball and singles matches are being played. The Clarification is silent on stroke play formats.

The reason why this distinction between advice in match play and stroke play partnered formats appears importnat (to me) is that old (pre-2019) Decision 31/1 expressly forbade partners giving each other advice when both partners were playing concurrently in an individual stroke play competition. This specific aspect seems to be overlooked in mapping to the post-2019 Rules.

Suffice to say, then, that the issue of advice in a mix of singles, four-ball, match play and stroke play formats is definitely not explicitly covered in the Rules.

Over to others please.....

 

[rulie]

Can we turn to the issue of advice please?

Discussion so far has centred on the advisability (or otherwise) of combining stroke play and match play formats. Committee Procedures 6 tells us that stroke play rules should take precedence. The discussion has not so far canvassed the substantive question of provision of advice in concurrent singles and four-ball formats - be that in match play or stroke play.

The current Rules (Clarification 23.7/1) explicitly permit partners to provide advice to each other when concurrent four-ball and singles matches are being played. The Clarification is silent on stroke play formats.

The reason why this distinction between advice in match play and stroke play partnered formats appears importnat (to me) is that old (pre-2019) Decision 31/1 expressly forbade partners giving each other advice when both partners were playing concurrently in an individual stroke play competition. This specific aspect seems to be overlooked in mapping to the post-2019 Rules.

Suffice to say, then, that the issue of advice in a mix of singles, four-ball, match play and stroke play formats is definitely not explicitly covered in the Rules.

Over to others please.....

My opinion on the original post - stroke play Rules take precedence, and since this is singles stroke play (Stableford), advice must not be given or asked for between the four players. If done, there would be a penalty for the stroke play scores.

 

[Steven Rules]

.....and a supplementary question:

Noting that Clarification 23.7/1 explicitly permits partners to provide advice to each other when concurrent four-ball and singles matches are being played, what is the ruling on advice between partners for concurrent four-ball and singles stroke play fomats, noting that old Decision 31/1 expressly forbade it? And where is this covered in the current Rules?

 

[salfordlad]

.....and a supplementary question:

Noting that Clarification 23.7/1 explicitly permits partners to provide advice to each other when concurrent four-ball and singles matches are being played, what is the ruling on advice between partners for concurrent four-ball and singles stroke play fomats, noting that old Decision 31/1 expressly forbade it? And where is this covered in the current Rules?

I don't see it explicitly covered anywhere. And we have lost the reference that four-ball should take precedence. The only loose connection is that touched on above - if match and stroke are combined, stroke rules "should" apply. And that means it is down to the Committee to resolve any issues arising. Do any give thought to the issue? I can't answer that.