Player refuse to give information in Matchplay 3.2d

[3offTheTee]

I know this is unbelievable but it happened today with an ex cat 1(irrelevant) who is still stuck were the sun does not shine.

We have a roll up and today there were 11 players. We play singles Stableford 1x3 and Stableford plus matchplay2x4 and I was in a group of 4 playing both matchplay and Stableford.

One of the guys from the other team on 17th when asked how many he had played would not respond. He said he would advise his score at the end of the hole re Stableford score.
Read 3.2d 1st paragraph but it does not cover this scenario, possibly for obvious reasons.

They were about to lose the match, bad loser, and not looking for comments about him or never playing with him again etc.

Is it actually covered in the rule please?

 

[duncan mackie]

Actually quite easy to rule on.....🤗

The principle applied is to seperate the competitions and rule on each separately (see committee procedures 6 C 12)

In this case the player loses the hole in play (3.2.d) but has no penalty to his stroke play score.

He is also a muppet; but that's not a rules issue and you seem to have come up with a strategy for this going forwards 👍

 

[Ross61]

Actually quite easy to rule on.....🤗

The principle applied is to seperate the competitions and rule on each separately (see committee procedures 6 C 12)

In this case the player loses the hole in play (3.2.d) but has no penalty to his stroke play score.

He is also a muppet; but that's not a rules issue and you seem to have come up with a strategy for this going forwards 👍

How does this work in 4BBB? If one opponent refuses to say how many strokes he has taken, is it just that player that loses the hole but his partner is still able to win/half the hole?
This happened to me in one of my first 4BBB matches and when I asked him for his strokes so far, he just laughed at me, saying this is match play mate I don’t have to tell you. I did not know the rule at the time.

 

[rulefan]

If player A refuses the information he loses the hole, so his score is now irrelevant in the match. If B then refuses the information about his score, he is out for the match.

But how were you supposed to mark their card accurately if you didn't know their individual scores?

 

[rulie]

There are not scorecards required in match play?

 

[williamalex1]

There are not scorecards required in match play?

We have a separate column on our score cards for match play, where you can if you wish keep track and mark won +, lost - or halved 0.

 

[rulie]

We have a separate column on our score cards for match play, where you can if you wish keep track and mark won +, lost - or halved 0.

Of course, but it not required by the Rules to keeps scorecards in match play.

 

[rulefan]

The OP says

We play singles Stableford 1x3 and Stableford plus matchplay2x4 and I was in a group of 4 playing both matchplay and Stableford.

 

[SGC001]

I know this is unbelievable but it happened today with an ex cat 1(irrelevant) who is still stuck were the sun does not shine.

We have a roll up and today there were 11 players. We play singles Stableford 1x3 and Stableford plus matchplay2x4 and I was in a group of 4 playing both matchplay and Stableford.

One of the guys from the other team on 17th when asked how many he had played would not respond. He said he would advise his score at the end of the hole re Stableford score.
Read 3.2d 1st paragraph but it does not cover this scenario, possibly for obvious reasons.

They were about to lose the match, bad loser, and not looking for comments about him or never playing with him again etc.

Is it actually covered in the rule please?

You cant play match play and stroke play at the same time.

You need to pick your poison, because both have different rules.

Theres a reason clubs cant do it.

E.g. U play of wrong tee and hit it in the rammle. Match play they accept the shot, stroke play u have to correct and play from correct tee under penalty, but then how do u continue in stroke play event without incurring further penalties as 2 balls still to finish.

Then u have playing out of turn scenarios etc etc etc

Clearly this must be a friendly knock, but the organisation needs a rethink.

You're going to have to ignore penalties rulings etc or get horrible situations.

 

[doublebogey7]

The OP says

We play singles Stableford 1x3 and Stableford plus matchplay2x4 and I was in a group of 4 playing both matchplay and Stableford.

He also said that the player said he would advice his score at the end of the hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You cant play match play and stroke play at the same time.

You need to pick your poison, because both have different rules.

Theres a reason clubs cant do it.

E.g. U play of wrong tee and hit it in the rammle. Match play they accept the shot, stroke play u have to correct and play from correct tee under penalty, but then how do u continue in stroke play event without incurring further penalties as 2 balls still to finish.

Then u have playing out of turn scenarios etc etc etc

Clearly this must be a friendly knock, but the organisation needs a rethink.

You're going to have to ignore penalties rulings etc or get horrible situations.

We play the same dual format in the Sat roll up I play in. It’s individual strokeplay stableford scoring - then whatever suits group sizes. As normally four balls we toss balls up for 4BBB match play pairs once groups are drawn. The individual stroke play (scoring stableford) takes precedence and so accordingly we play strokeplay rules supplemented by four ball match play where there is no conflict with strokeplay. It is very rare that conflicts in the rules arise - in fact I don’t recall any conflict and ruling debate in any group I’ve played in. So for instance within a 4BBB pair we won’t seek generally advice from our partner on the line of a putt - though occasionally that might happen as we forget - but as it’s only all for fun nobody would be concerned.

 

[3offTheTee]

He also said that the player said he would advice his score at the end of the hole.

For the STABLEFORD. Kindly read OP. He needs to advise his strokes in MP when asked

 

[duncan mackie]

He also said that the player said he would advice his score at the end of the hole.

Which is fine in stroke play, and his stableford score will still count for that competition.
In match play it isn't and the player is in breach of rule 3.2, for which the penalty is loss of hole. The penalty would only apply to him, and not his partner, because the breach for which he is being penalised no longer affects the other pairs decision making in playing the rest of that hole.

 

[doublebogey7]

Which is fine in stroke play, and his stableford score will still count for that competition.
In match play it isn't and the player is in breach of rule 3.2, for which the penalty is loss of hole. The penalty would only apply to him, and not his partner, because the breach for which he is being penalised no longer affects the other pairs decision making in playing the rest of that hole.

I understand that Duncan, I was responding to Rulefans assertion that the player needed to announce strokes in order for the marker to mark the card in the stroke play event.

 

[jim8flog]

I would change how you play so that the rules are the same for both.

Instead of playing match play, play better ball stableford for the match.

 

[louise_a]

You cant play match play and stroke play at the same time.

You need to pick your poison, because both have different rules.

Theres a reason clubs cant do it.

E.g. U play of wrong tee and hit it in the rammle. Match play they accept the shot, stroke play u have to correct and play from correct tee under penalty, but then how do u continue in stroke play event without incurring further penalties as 2 balls still to finish.

Then u have playing out of turn scenarios etc etc etc

Clearly this must be a friendly knock, but the organisation needs a rethink.

You're going to have to ignore penalties rulings etc or get horrible situations.

It is discouraged but not disallowed. The rules say players should be advised that things like recalling shots are not allowed

 

[patricks148]

why would you not tell your oppo what you had scored if you are in a MP situation???

 

[SGC001]

It is discouraged but not disallowed. The rules say players should be advised that things like recalling shots are not allowed

Used to be not permitted rule 33.1

Not sure if new dumbed down rules have altered that.

Edit old ruling
Combining Match Play and Stroke Play
Q.Our group has a season long match play competition. Some of the players want to play in our weekly stroke play competition, and play their match at the same time. Is this permissible?
A.No. Rule 33-1 states that certain special Rules governing stroke play are so substantially different from those governing match play that combining the two forms of play is not practicable and is not permitted. The results of matches played and the scores returned in these circumstances must not be accepted.

 

[rulefan]

Committee Procedures
Combining Match Play and Stroke Play
The combining of match play and stroke play is discouraged as certain Rules are substantially different between the two formats. But there will be times when players either request to combine the two forms of play or, having done so on their own, request a ruling. The Committee should make its best efforts to support players at these times and should use the following guidelines in doing so.

When players request to combine match play and stroke play

If a Committee chooses to allow players to play a match while competing in a stroke-play competition, it is recommended that the players be advised that the Rules for stroke play apply throughout. For example, no concessions are allowed and if one player plays out of turn, the other does not have the option of recalling the stroke.

 

[rulefan]

Which is fine in stroke play, and his stableford score will still count for that competition.

I agree, providing the player can justify his score when the marker comes to attest it. If a player has been hacking his way out of the jungle and possibly been taking practice swings, I would want to know his score when he gets clear.