People living rough

[TonyN]

i think there may be a clash of location here, Craig are you in the US, if so its prob a whole different world to the UK

This will absolutely be the case. I've never been across the pond and I didnt know thats where you where, but I would well imagine there is a huge difference between US homeless and UK homeless.

I am purely talking about here in the UK. North west England in particular. There are enough food banks and charity shelters that no one, bar no one will starve, go hungry or not find shelter. If they do, its through their own choice or lack of effort.

You don't even have to be homeless to get handouts. Our local food centres often give weekly shops to people who own their own homes but are struggling financially.

I'll reiterate it again, HERE, beggars beg for money to spend on drink and drugs. Most of them are not even homeless they live in shelters or couch surf but they still beg borrow and steal for a fix because no matter how much they get, its never enough. And this isnt me having a go, or belittling, or pointing the finger of misunderstanding, I know for a fact because I deal with, process, refer and arrest people like this daily.

Colleagues and I constantly try to help put addicts/users on the road to recovery, point them in the right direction, help secure them accommodation, feed them, but honestly, most do not care, do not want to be rehabilitated because they love the life of drugs/alcohol and responsibility free life.

Even after the have had their methadone (heroin substitute treatment) they will still steal each others or beg /shoplift to fund the habbit. They don't take methadone to help them come off drugs, they take it on top because its free and fills the gap between fixes.

Obviously this doesn't apply to EVERYONE, but in my experience it is 99 out of 100 I deal with.

 

[craigstardis1976]

Just a different flavour (accent even) of the same age-old issue!

An excerpt from a 1969 commentary....

Have you seen the old man
In the closed-down market
Kicking up the paper,
with his worn out shoes?
In his eyes you see no pride
Hand held loosely at his side
Yesterday's paper telling yesterday's news

So how can you tell me you're lonely,
And say for you that the sun don't shine?
Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
I'll show you something to make you change your mind

Have you seen the old girl
Who walks the streets of London
Dirt in her hair and her clothes in rags?
She's no time for talking,
She just keeps right on walking
Carrying her home in two carrier bags.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streets_of_London_(song)

I have seen too many examples of precisely the above - along with some 'professional beggars' - over the years!

Foxholer:

You are wrong, Sir.

Homeless people are not like images of people who have given up on life in folk songs. Nor are they always homeless because of their own making and nor should they be categorized with "Professional beggars."

Of course it is easy for you to say that because it requires no thought on your part and probably falls broadly in line with thinking within whatever social group you are part of.

But it does not mean you are right. All you are doing addresses what you want to see in homelessness, knowing that by and large, the homeless do not have a voice or the means to intellectually defend themselves. Being homeless did not rob me of that ability. Although it involved a great deal of suffering, I have come out of it a better, more thankful and grateful person than I were before.

When I found just one person willing to listen and believe what happened to me, I was able with a little assistance to get off the streets. Within two months, I had a place in transitional housing and a job. I saved up and moved across the country to restart my life in a place there are a lot more jobs. I also decided I wanted to play golf.

But Of course it's easier to stick to your stereotypes than use your mind.

 

[craigstardis1976]

Me and the misses talk about people being homeless now and again, and we maybe simplify things a bit (a lot), but with the welfare state being readilly available and there being places to stay...oh yes there are...why are people begging for money and have NO WHERE to stay?

This baffles us. Oh and begging for money with an animal...really??????

Is ignorance something you and the misses enjoy basking in from your ivory tower?

People beg for money for various reasons. Sometimes it is for drink and drugs. But sometimes it's because they need something essential and they have no way of being able to earn it at that time. I never begged when I was homeless but I spoke to people who did.

My dog was literally the only thing that prevented me from ending my life. The thought to go on for him when there seems no hope was my sole comfort.

As for your welfare state argument, that had been on its knees for forty plus years and is not the catch all you seem to think it is. Go online and look at the 1970's documentary films made by John Pilger and you will see it was broken then. Successive governments since then have done practically nothing to help the homeless. It is sad that I don't even live in the YK but have checked this out while you and your wife just theorize and do bugger all to inform yourselves or, God forbid, actually do something.

In America, there was no welfare state to help me. Stripped of my ID, no agency would help you without an ID and it cost money I did not have to get a replacement. Eating in soup kitchens sharing with my dog kept me alive but I lost eighty pounds of weight and it caused health problems I still have today.

Craig

 

[craigstardis1976]

This will absolutely be the case. I've never been across the pond and I didnt know thats where you where, but I would well imagine there is a huge difference between US homeless and UK homeless.

I am purely talking about here in the UK. North west England in particular. There are enough food banks and charity shelters that no one, bar no one will starve, go hungry or not find shelter. If they do, its through their own choice or lack of effort.

You don't even have to be homeless to get handouts. Our local food centres often give weekly shops to people who own their own homes but are struggling financially.

I'll reiterate it again, HERE, beggars beg for money to spend on drink and drugs. Most of them are not even homeless they live in shelters or couch surf but they still beg borrow and steal for a fix because no matter how much they get, its never enough. And this isnt me having a go, or belittling, or pointing the finger of misunderstanding, I know for a fact because I deal with, process, refer and arrest people like this daily.

Colleagues and I constantly try to help put addicts/users on the road to recovery, point them in the right direction, help secure them accommodation, feed them, but honestly, most do not care, do not want to be rehabilitated because they love the life of drugs/alcohol and responsibility free life.

Even after the have had their methadone (heroin substitute treatment) they will still steal each others or beg /shoplift to fund the habbit. They don't take methadone to help them come off drugs, they take it on top because its free and fills the gap between fixes.

Obviously this doesn't apply to EVERYONE, but in my experience it is 99 out of 100 I deal with.

Then by your own statement you are saying 99 percent of homeless are drink or drug addicts. That is just not true, Sir.

You can't deal with issues concerning homeless people if you just assume they are addicts. The help you give to addicts is to addicts who happen to be homeless. It doesn't address homeless people primarily.

 

[TonyN]

Then by your own statement you are saying 99 percent of homeless are drink or drug addicts. That is just not true, Sir.

You can't deal with issues concerning homeless people if you just assume they are addicts. The help you give to addicts is to addicts who happen to be homeless. It doesn't address homeless people primarily.

No, I'm saying 99% of the people I deal with are! In particular the area I have mentioned. But I would be the numbers are not far off for the rest of the UK.

Im not guessing these things, the people I meet are open and honest about their addictions. They tell me, they tell the custody Sergeants, they tell the custody medical staff. They know its an excuse our judicial system sympathises with when they sentence suspects for dishonesty offences.

This isn't the 1970's. Its 2016 and times have changed. Dramatically. I kid you not, where I work, you drive past any deal spot before breakfast, its a scene I can only liken to the walking dead, watching addicts flock for a deal, like walkers do for fresh meat.

There is no theme tune here. No happy ending. This is north west metropolis where crack cocain and heroin are easier to buy than cigarettes if your under 18.

It might be different there, but here, its no different than I've previously described. We dont have a big homeless problem because we have plenty of space for them. But the beggers and street drinkers that go through the custody process, will almost always test positive for heroin/crack and will tell you they are begging so they dont have to steal to buy drugs.

 

[craigstardis1976]

No, I'm saying 99% of the people I deal with are! In particular the area I have mentioned. But I would be the numbers are not far off for the rest of the UK.

Im not guessing these things, the people I meet are open and honest about their addictions. They tell me, they tell the custody Sergeants, they tell the custody medical staff. They know its an excuse our judicial system sympathises with when they sentence suspects for dishonesty offences.

This isn't the 1970's. Its 2016 and times have changed. Dramatically. I kid you not, where I work, you drive past any deal spot before breakfast, its a scene I can only liken to the walking dead, watching addicts flock for a deal, like walkers do for fresh meat.

There is no theme tune here. No happy ending. This is north west metropolis where crack cocain and heroin are easier to buy than cigarettes if your under 18.

It might be different there, but here, its no different than I've previously described. We dont have a big homeless problem because we have plenty of space for them. But the beggers and street drinkers that go through the custody process, will almost always test positive for heroin/crack and will tell you they are begging so they dont have to steal to buy drugs.

So you mention this is 2016 and not the 1970's...what has caused this to happen in the UK?

 

[TonyN]

So you mention this is 2016 and not the 1970's...what has caused this to happen in the UK?

Caused what?

 

[Foxholer]

Foxholer:

You are wrong, Sir.

Homeless people are not like images of people who have given up on life in folk songs. Nor are they always homeless because of their own making and nor should they be categorized with "Professional beggars."

Of course it is easy for you to say that because it requires no thought on your part and probably falls broadly in line with thinking within whatever social group you are part of.

But it does not mean you are right. All you are doing addresses what you want to see in homelessness, knowing that by and large, the homeless do not have a voice or the means to intellectually defend themselves. Being homeless did not rob me of that ability. Although it involved a great deal of suffering, I have come out of it a better, more thankful and grateful person than I were before.

When I found just one person willing to listen and believe what happened to me, I was able with a little assistance to get off the streets. Within two months, I had a place in transitional housing and a job. I saved up and moved across the country to restart my life in a place there are a lot more jobs. I also decided I wanted to play golf.

But Of course it's easier to stick to your stereotypes than use your mind.

Thanks for your own non-thinking, stereotypical, ignorant comment!

I have seen, know (all too well) and am related to folk who are or have been homeless - for one reason or another!

Anyone who has travelled on a late train from Waterloo (at least a few years ago when I used to) will have experienced the 'professional beggars' I mentioned! That doesn't mean ALL are 'professional', just as your experience doesn't mean ALL homeless are capable of recovering their situation, so reasonable assistance WILL always be required from any 'just' society! I've not experienced US sufficiently to comment properly on whether it is 'Just' or not - though I do have a view (based on 'limited sampling'!).

It is part of the role of the likes of folk-singers (your term) to highlight such issues! Try checking out Hornsby's magnificent 'The Way it Is' - which does mention the US Welfare system - or 'Everything's Alright' (from JC Superstar) for a 'musical summary of the issues'!

 

[craigstardis1976]

Caused what?

Caused so many people to become from what you describe, as totally hopeless addicts?

 

[craigstardis1976]

Thanks for your own non-thinking, stereotypical, ignorant comment!

I have seen, know (all too well) and am related to folk who are or have been homeless - for one reason or another!

Anyone who has travelled on a late train from Waterloo (at least a few years ago when I used to) will have experienced the 'professional beggars' I mentioned! That doesn't mean ALL are 'professional', just as your experience doesn't mean ALL homeless are capable of recovering their situation, so reasonable assistance WILL always be required from any 'just' society! I've not experienced US sufficiently to comment properly on whether it is 'Just' or not - though I do have a view (based on 'limited sampling'!).

It is part of the role of the likes of folk-singers (your term) to highlight such issues! Try checking out Hornsby's magnificent 'The Way it Is' - which does mention the US Welfare system - or 'Everything's Alright' (from JC Superstar) for a 'musical summary of the issues'!

Can you please define how my comments are: non-thinking, stereotypical, ignorant - Thank you.

The thing is we do not live in a just society not in the UK and certainly not in the US. I am not a social justice crusader. Of course I wish things had been available for me but they were not.

However, it does not mean that homeless people should be grouped into categories of deprivation such as drug or drink addicts. Why not see homeless people for who they are? individuals who like any other group of people are people with faults but also people with talents and if given the opportunity are capable of rebuilding and making the most of their lives.

Two years ago, I was on the streets. Today, I can play golf once or twice a week (or at least I could if I was not injured) and pursue this passion and a career. There are lots of others capable of doing the same but Governments seldom hope those people while spending untold amounts on those who are addicts.

 

[TonyN]

Caused so many people to become from what you describe, as totally hopeless addicts?

Oh if I had a day to write that up I could give you my opinion.

But in short, not only do we live in a country that rewards the lazy, we also live in a country that fails to take a hardline approach to those that step out of line too often, instead trying to rehabilitate everyone. Which is fine but you simply can't rehabilitate someome who doesn't want to be rehabilitated.

 

[Foxholer]

Can you please define how my comments are: non-thinking, stereotypical, ignorant - Thank you.

Answer the question 'How well do you know me?' and you will find the answer!

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Guys can we accept that Homelessness is a bad thing and is driven by different conditions in different areas.
without it entering into a slanging match as to who has had the most authentic homelessness experience.

Tony, Feel for you, must be really tough dealing with that day after day, stay strong
Craig, Amazing story, it shows what can be done when somebody wants to escape and just needs a leg up, inspirational . Hope you get well soon

think everyone else including me, doesnt really have a clue whats going on.

 

[SocketRocket]

This will absolutely be the case. I've never been across the pond and I didnt know thats where you where, but I would well imagine there is a huge difference between US homeless and UK homeless.

I am purely talking about here in the UK. North west England in particular. There are enough food banks and charity shelters that no one, bar no one will starve, go hungry or not find shelter. If they do, its through their own choice or lack of effort.

You don't even have to be homeless to get handouts. Our local food centres often give weekly shops to people who own their own homes but are struggling financially.

I'll reiterate it again, HERE, beggars beg for money to spend on drink and drugs. Most of them are not even homeless they live in shelters or couch surf but they still beg borrow and steal for a fix because no matter how much they get, its never enough. And this isnt me having a go, or belittling, or pointing the finger of misunderstanding, I know for a fact because I deal with, process, refer and arrest people like this daily.

Colleagues and I constantly try to help put addicts/users on the road to recovery, point them in the right direction, help secure them accommodation, feed them, but honestly, most do not care, do not want to be rehabilitated because they love the life of drugs/alcohol and responsibility free life.

Even after the have had their methadone (heroin substitute treatment) they will still steal each others or beg /shoplift to fund the habbit. They don't take methadone to help them come off drugs, they take it on top because its free and fills the gap between fixes.

Obviously this doesn't apply to EVERYONE, but in my experience it is 99 out of 100 I deal with.

Thanks for a very informative post.

 

[Crazyface]

x2

I knew it !!!

 

[patricks148]

Is ignorance something you and the misses enjoy basking in from your ivory tower?

People beg for money for various reasons. Sometimes it is for drink and drugs. But sometimes it's because they need something essential and they have no way of being able to earn it at that time. I never begged when I was homeless but I spoke to people who did.

My dog was literally the only thing that prevented me from ending my life. The thought to go on for him when there seems no hope was my sole comfort.

As for your welfare state argument, that had been on its knees for forty plus years and is not the catch all you seem to think it is. Go online and look at the 1970's documentary films made by John Pilger and you will see it was broken then. Successive governments since then have done practically nothing to help the homeless. It is sad that I don't even live in the YK but have checked this out while you and your wife just theorize and do bugger all to inform yourselves or, God forbid, actually do something.

In America, there was no welfare state to help me. Stripped of my ID, no agency would help you without an ID and it cost money I did not have to get a replacement. Eating in soup kitchens sharing with my dog kept me alive but I lost eighty pounds of weight and it caused health problems I still have today.

Craig

I expect your experence in the US has little bearing on what Tony's is in the UK

 

[JCW]

We got them here in Poole & Bournemouth , more then a few , changing times .............EYG

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

Don't normally get seriously moved by the sight of homeless because of how common it is in big cities. I'll put change in as many as i possibly can if I don't need it and i'll always speak to them rather than just walk past.

This weekend however I was getting some cash out in Edinburgh and there was a lad sat to the side of the cash points (a few meters away) just sat there crying.
This lad was about my age (23) which really hit home. I can't even condone how horrendous it must be to live on a street with nothing to your name and I wouldn't even know where to start to get myself out of that position.

I gave him a bit of change and stood and had a fag with him and a conversation. Chatted about football and Edinburgh and what not.
Always think that just spending a couple of minutes with a homeless person or just having a small chat will make them feel 10x better than copper coins.

Good on ya but here's my thing ... I wouldn't give a smoking beggar a penny, me chucking in some cash for him to have a fag lol, no chance, you are having a giraffe!


Multiple reasons for someone to be homeless though and some would get my sympathy, some!