Penalty for playing own ball when moved without authorisation!

[Flo]

I am a new golfer and today in a Stapleford competition one of my opponents marked and lifted by ball on the green and tossed it a short distance aside and slightly further from the hole than it had lay. This was done to allow her to play to speed things up as I was making my way to the green. I walked behind some tall bushes which meant i had not seen and was totally unaware of this action. By the time I reached the green she had played her ball and I went to play mine from where it was now lying. I thought to myself that it looked a little further from the hole than I had imagined but that is not uncommon so I assumed I had just misread the distance from afar and played on to putt the ball and par the hole. It was then that my opponent said she was sorry and that she forgot to tell me she that she had marked and moved my ball. The marker was still on the green and nearer the hole from where I had played. Not being sure what to do we decided I should play my ball from the original marked position now which I also putted to par and we would ask for a ruling back at the clubhouse. Our lady handicap official ruled that I should incur a penalty because it was my responsibilty to ensure I was playing my ball from the correct position and that my opponent should incur no penalty. This really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the fairness of the game!

I have looked through the rules and nothing seems to totally apply to this scenario. It does seem unfair to me that I should be penalised for something I was totally unaware of and only became aware of it when my opponent drew my attention to it when I had putted out. Can anyone help with this one?

 

[Matty]

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20

20-1/4 Competitor's Ball Lifted Without Authority by Fellow-Competitor
Q.In stroke play, a fellow-competitor lifts a competitor's ball on the putting green without the authority of the competitor. Such action is contrary to Rule 20-1. What is the ruling?

A.There is no penalty and the ball must be replaced (Rule 18-4).


Your playing partner lifted your ball without authority and as soon as you were made aware of this you replaced the ball in it's correct position and played from there.

I can see nothing in the rules that requires a player to ask their playing partner if they marked and moved the ball before playing it. I'd be challenging the decision and ask for a direction to a specific rule and decision to support the ruling made. The only thing they can get you on is maybe playing the ball from the wrong position under Rule 20-7 but you may well argue the ball wasn't 'in play' as it was marked and lifted and you were not made aware by the unauthorised person who marked and lifted it!

Heck, if they stick by this decision then you can make a merry mess of all future competitions by marking your playing partners ball on the green and moving it, let them hole out and then tell them so they get a penalty stroke!

 

[duncan mackie]

20-1/5 contains the general principle - When a competitor authorises another person to lift his ball, the competitor is responsible for any breach of the Rules (Rule 20-1). The converse is generally true, i.e. the competitor is not responsible for a breach of a Rule caused by the unauthorised lifting of his ball.

I can see no reason to penalise the player here.

 

[rulefan]

I think 20-1/5 may help.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-5

The significant words are:-

When a competitor authorizes another person to lift his ball, the competitor is responsible for any breach of the Rules (Rule 20-1). The converse is generally true, i.e., the competitor is not responsible for a breach of a Rule caused by the unauthorized lifting of his ball.

In equity, the last part of the answer should be

Thus, in this case, the competitor should not be penalized under Rule 20.7. The competitor should hole out with the original ball from the wrong place, without penalty.

Edit:
I spent too long editing the decision

 

[drdel]

It is possible to look at this from different positions...

The ball was marked but by an unauthorised competitor (no penalty, as yet). The ball was lifted and was thus not in play.

The player saw their ball but doubted it was in the correct position. The player did not seek confirmation but hit the ball, (which was not in play), anyway. Possible penalty for either hitting wrong ball from wrong position and/or taking a practise stroke ! Rather, as when a provisional ball is hit, it becomes the ball in play.

Player then replaces ball to marked position and makes a stroke.

Lesson is that its a player's responsibility to know their ball and its position prior to making a stroke.

 

[duncan mackie]

It is possible to look at this from different positions...

The ball was marked but by an unauthorised competitor (no penalty, as yet). The ball was lifted and was thus not in play.

The player saw their ball but doubted it was in the correct position. The player did not seek confirmation but hit the ball, (which was not in play), anyway. Possible penalty for either hitting wrong ball from wrong position and/or taking a practise stroke ! Rather, as when a provisional ball is hit, it becomes the ball in play.

Player then replaces ball to marked position and makes a stroke.

Lesson is that its a player's responsibility to know their ball and its position prior to making a stroke.

Whilst I agree your principle I do not interpret the information provided "I thought to myself that it looked a little further from the hole than I had imagined but that is not uncommon so I assumed I had just misread the distance from afar*
Read more at http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?95510-Penalty-for-playing-own-ball-when-moved-without-authorisation!#hpSvHUe95gXZYBKQ.99" as representing sufficient doubt as to the circumstances for it to apply.

 

[jim8flog]

Going back to the OP

I am surprised that there was no penalty given against the other player. I have always understood that you must seek the ball owners permission to mark and lift their ball.

The rule actually states

"Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that another ball might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted."

It does not say 'he may lift the ball'.

 

[duncan mackie]

Going back to the OP

I am surprised that there was no penalty given against the other player. I have always understood that you must seek the ball owners permission to mark and lift their ball.

The rule actually states

"Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that another ball might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted."

It does not say 'he may lift the ball'.

But 18-4 specifically states...

If a*fellow-competitor, his*caddie*or his*equipment*moves*the player’s ball, touches it or causes it to*move, there is no penalty.

 

[jim8flog]

Noted and thanks.

 

[Flo]

Thank you for this it seems more fair and that is what golf is supposed to be ....fair!

 

[Flo]

Thank you folks for your replies. I understand the first point but in this case the ball wasn't lifted it was just rolled away from the original spot, still on the green but slightly further distance from the hole than my original position and completely without my knowledge which is why I didn't question it.

 

[rulefan]

Thank you folks for your replies. I understand the first point but in this case the ball wasn't lifted it was just rolled away from the original spot, still on the green but slightly further distance from the hole than my original position and completely without my knowledge which is why I didn't question it.

The rule is concerned with moving the ball, not lifting or rolling specifically.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thank you folks for your replies. I understand the first point but in this case the ball wasn't lifted it was just rolled away from the original spot, still on the green but slightly further distance from the hole than my original position and completely without my knowledge which is why I didn't question it.

Have to ask how do you know the ball was just rolled away rather than marked, lifted and rolled away?

However, as Rulefan has posted, it doesn't actually matter how it was moved.

 

[atticusfinch]

Thank you for this it seems more fair and that is what golf is supposed to be ....fair!

Keep in mind "fair" in the rules of golf does not have the common meaning. It means the rules are applied consistently and equally to all players in the competition (Ie fairly applied). The rule might actually result in a situation that seems very unfair to an affected player. But the objective is that a rule is applied the same way in like situations, so all players are treated the same. An individual's situation might be sympathetic and tempt an official to be lenient based on his feelings but there's no place for common humanity in golf. Do what the rule says, literally.

 

[Sweep]

The rule is concerned with moving the ball, not lifting or rolling specifically.

If the OP’s fellow competitor rolled the ball away, surely she would be in breach of 16-1?

 

[atticusfinch]

Who is "she" in your Q?

See 16-1d/2 and /3. The "roller's" intent in rolling controls.

 

[LincolnShep]

I don't know the answer to Flo's question; but I'm a committed pedant so feel obliged to point out that the game is called STABLEFORD, not STAPLEFORD. There, I feel much better now. I'm sure everyone is impressed by my nit-picking and it's mere coincidence that nobody wants to play with me.

 

[atticusfinch]

I'm a pedant too. but I go lightly with new people (she says she is) and typos.

 

[Flo]

LOL (that means 'laugh out loud') Yep, (that means 'Yes') I am not playing long but I do know it is called Stableford, a mere typo! Not that impressed with nit-picking, would have been more impressed if you could have helped me with my question but thank you to everyone who did. As a matter of interest, does anyone play with you? I hope so because I find the social aspect of Golf as important as the game itself!

 

[Sweep]

Who is "she" in your Q?

See 16-1d/2 and /3. The "roller's" intent in rolling controls.

She is the OP’s fellow competitor. The one who it was said rolled the ball away. Just before she (fellow competitor) took her putt. Surely her (fellow competitor) action could be seen as testing the surface?