PC or what??

[Hobbit]

Again - its shocking thing to say and suggest that anyone who has access to kids is a potentially a paedophile - massive lack of trust and poor imo

Nothing can justify your statement you make imo

What I find really shocking is.... and its sticking in my throat... I'm inclined to agree with HK, but maybe from a slightly different angle - couldn't totally agree with him.

Let's just put the implied, "you are guilty until proved innocent," to one side for a second and look at it from the perspective of what it achieves. It may well stop any number of peads from taking photos of children in that environment.

How many laws have been brought in down the years that were perceived to penalise the innocent but actually achieved a great deal of good, e.g. the seat belt law. There was a great out cry when that was introduced.

How about cameras in shops or in the High St? Are we all shop lifters, or guilty of anti-social behaviour? We are quite willing to accept cameras in shops etc, so is it really wrong to have a ban om phones in the classroom? Or is it because the thought of being a potential shoplifter doesn't give you a second thought, but the thought of you being a potential pead causes afront?

 

[Fyldewhite]

There is always the argument that if such rules save one child from abuse then it is worth the overhead in terms of time spent enforcing it, the inconvenience (real and perceived) etc. However, a mandatory 15mph speed limit everywhere would definitely reduce road deaths and serious injuries. Would never happen of course so it always comes down to that "what is reasonable?" question. The question is always what can be done to minimize the risks? In this case I think it's more than a little draconian and as I've already said won't stop anyone from doing it if they really want to.....it's all about the school being able to tick the box that said "we had strict policies in place" in the (still very unlikely) event that such pictures get taken.

 

[Hacker Khan]

What I find really shocking is.... and its sticking in my throat... I'm inclined to agree with HK, but maybe from a slightly different angle - couldn't totally agree with him.

Let's just put the implied, "you are guilty until proved innocent," to one side for a second and look at it from the perspective of what it achieves. It may well stop any number of peads from taking photos of children in that environment.

How many laws have been brought in down the years that were perceived to penalise the innocent but actually achieved a great deal of good, e.g. the seat belt law. There was a great out cry when that was introduced.

How about cameras in shops or in the High St? Are we all shop lifters, or guilty of anti-social behaviour? We are quite willing to accept cameras in shops etc, so is it really wrong to have a ban om phones in the classroom? Or is it because the thought of being a potential shoplifter doesn't give you a second thought, but the thought of you being a potential pead causes afront?

Don't worry about it, I post so much crap that the law of averages states eventually anyone will agree with one thing I post. Well almost anyone...

And a good point well made. So I agree with you as well. Suck it up.

 

[chrisd]

What I find really shocking is.... and its sticking in my throat... I'm inclined to agree with HK, but maybe from a slightly different angle - couldn't totally agree with him.

Let's just put the implied, "you are guilty until proved innocent," to one side for a second and look at it from the perspective of what it achieves. It may well stop any number of peads from taking photos of children in that environment.

How many laws have been brought in down the years that were perceived to penalise the innocent but actually achieved a great deal of good, e.g. the seat belt law. There was a great out cry when that was introduced.

How about cameras in shops or in the High St? Are we all shop lifters, or guilty of anti-social behaviour? We are quite willing to accept cameras in shops etc, so is it really wrong to have a ban om phones in the classroom? Or is it because the thought of being a potential shoplifter doesn't give you a second thought, but the thought of you being a potential pead causes afront?

I'm in a similar camp as you, I don't disagree with HK at all, but cases are very very rare, I agree there should be no cases at all, but you can't totally guard against it without having a group of people overseeing every contact with children (just to ensure their not working in, say, pairs) cctv throughout the school and constant checking and monitoring of all the staff, visitors etc Child safety is absolutely paramount but common sense has to apply too

 

[Hacker Khan]

There is always the argument that if such rules save one child from abuse then it is worth the overhead in terms of time spent enforcing it, the inconvenience (real and perceived) etc. However, a mandatory 15mph speed limit everywhere would definitely reduce road deaths and serious injuries. Would never happen of course so it always comes down to that "what is reasonable?" question. The question is always what can be done to minimize the risks? In this case I think it's more than a little draconian and as I've already said won't stop anyone from doing it if they really want to.....it's all about the school being able to tick the box that said "we had strict policies in place" in the (still very unlikely) event that such pictures get taken.

I would agree that there is an element of box ticking as that is how a lot of organisations run nowadays. And I also agree that blink box ticking without any application of common sense which does go on a lot, is dangerous. And you are right, it is someones judgement call on what is reasonable really. I know as I've had to make that very call.

But I would reiterate that the single measure is not there to stop someone per se, as if you take any initiate on it's own you could argue that it will not do much in isolation, so that is not a reason not to do it in my opinion. But it is there as a raft of measures to make it harder for someone to do this.

 

[Hacker Khan]

And one final point (I promise as I've said all I need to say) is that this kind of initiative should apply to all school staff, not just teachers. So that includes any temporary staff, cooks, office workers, care takers, supply teachers and various other people that are employed by schools.

So whilst there may be understandable uproar at a elderly female teacher (as the vast majority of teachers at primary schools are female) with over 35 years of experience and an impeccable record having to hand in their phone, would a parent or anyone else have the same uproar if this also applied to a supply teacher, or a temporary male caretaker who was in school for just a few days or a cook who they had never seen before had to do the same? As when you decide on the policies you have to take into account the whole of the staff.

 

[alexbrownmp]

So, my wife works at a primary school and all the staff received an email from the Head saying that any phone, Ipad or similar device has to be handed in to the office at the start of the working day and that the Head will relay important phone calls to the recipient that will now come in to the school office. Apart from the sheer volume of phones the school office will have to look after as kids have their phones taken too, it's difficult to see how they will cope with the constant messages.

The reason, apparently, is following guidance about safe guarding children following the Vanessa George case where inappropriate images were taken secretly.

So, are we now saying that everyone has to be treated as if they are potentially a pedophile just because of a, mercifully, few isolated cases. Are they going to ban knives and forks due to the number of stabbing committed these days?

The world has finally gone mad!

I fully agree and support the headmasters policy.

It's really not a difficult logistical process to set up where children turn off and hand in their phones to be collected after school- yes it's a hassle and some logistical issues easily overcome but a lot less hassle than having internal school images and videos circling the world on a daily basis and totally out of context.

Teachers could be self disciplined and anyone caught using one outside the staffroom or within the school grounds could face disciplinary action. It's not that difficult as an adult to behave as an adult and respect your employers wishes ie do the job you are paid to do without bringing in external distractions, of any kind.

Anyone getting upset over not having access to their phone but knowing they are contactable within minutes via the school office really needs to think again.

 

[SocketRocket]

Don't worry about it, I post so much crap that the law of averages states eventually anyone will agree with one thing I post. Well almost anyone...

And a good point well made. So I agree with you as well. Suck it up.

Ever considered getting an infinite number of Monkeys with an infinite number of computers logged into Golf Monthly Forum. Eventually one of them would post something like you do

 

[Golfmmad]

Slightly off topic but in a similar vein.

Was at my Granddaughters school last week - it was used as the Polling Station.
Everybody was queuing up and waiting in a small lobby to go in and vote. On the side wall is where the children hang their coats at the start of the day. Above each coat hook their names are stuck on the wall.

All the names were covered over with newspaper, so they couldn't be seen.

I found this quite strange!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Yyt

My wife takes her phone in and leave sit in her locker but I guess that won't suffice the new rules. I do not feel that the solution is a measured response to the perceived risk, as I said in my op many people are killed with knives but they are not banned totally!

If it's in a locked locker, what danger is there? Seems the best solution all round and can be checked in breaks in the staff room without any threat to the kids civil liberties or it being misconstrued

 

[Blue in Munich]

What I find really shocking is.... and its sticking in my throat... I'm inclined to agree with HK, but maybe from a slightly different angle - couldn't totally agree with him.

Let's just put the implied, "you are guilty until proved innocent," to one side for a second and look at it from the perspective of what it achieves. It may well stop any number of peads from taking photos of children in that environment.

How many laws have been brought in down the years that were perceived to penalise the innocent but actually achieved a great deal of good, e.g. the seat belt law. There was a great out cry when that was introduced.

How about cameras in shops or in the High St? Are we all shop lifters, or guilty of anti-social behaviour? We are quite willing to accept cameras in shops etc, so is it really wrong to have a ban om phones in the classroom? Or is it because the thought of being a potential shoplifter doesn't give you a second thought, but the thought of you being a potential pead causes afront?

If I seriously thought it would do any good Hobbit, I would support it. Unfortunately it's a bit like a speed limit; some will choose to observe it by handing in their phones, others will find ways round it such as a second phone or an alternative methods of capturing the images and there will precious little in the way of enforcement.

It's not so much that it stigmatises the innocent; it's that it will do very little to stop a determined paedophile whilst succeeding in inconveniencing the innocent.

 

[SocketRocket]

Is it not a case of risk management? If you take the case of the school in question, how many times have pedophiles infiltrated it and assaulted a child? Taking this to the next level, how many times have any schools had this problem?

Regarding the use of mobile phones in schools. For pupils, they should be banned from Schools as during the School day I can think of no reason why a child's education needs to be interrupted by the use of a mobile phone. For Staff, there should be a standard procedure for their use, the same as in most workplaces.

I can see that dealing with issues relating to children's wellbeing there are issues around child protection; but is the problem being overreacted and managed?

 

[chrisd]

Precisely Socket

This isn't an issue with pupils, it's a primary school and kids bringing phones to school have to hand them in. The new directive is with all staff and any visitors who will have contact with children.

 

[Fish]

If a teacher is caught with a phone then the kids should be able to get out and apply the size 11 white pump (trainer) out of the locker, I had a very close relation with a couple of pumps, a cane and even a table tennis bat!

Oh how times have changed, not sure how I'd survive these days without my daily spanking

 

[Fish]

:smirk:

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I had a very close relation with a couple of pumps, a cane and even a table tennis bat!
:

Obviously didn't work then