Outdated silly rules

[clubchamp98]

Can anyone really explain why you can't tap a spike mark down on the green and not just use the" its in the rules" It seems to me if you hit your ball on the green you should expect a near perfect surface prepared by the green staff for the pleasure of putting on not scared by some golfer in front of you. The recent fine on a well known professional golfer brings this into discussion he was wrong as this is the rule now but why is it ? I think as long as you don't hold up play you should be able to fix ANYTHING on the green this will keep them in good condition surely it makes sense. The other rule I would change is in a divot on the fairway // a golfer can take relief from a hole made by a burrowing animal / casual water/ young tree and lots of other things under the rules but NOT from a lazy golfer that can't be Bothered to put his divot back I know for a fact that the birds remove loose divots looking for worms in the early morning should I really be punished for this .. the main reason I ask is I sprained my wrist playing from a divot in the club championship . Some rules have been updated (i.e. wind moving ball on green ) this makes sense as the greens become faster and wind is a factor.

 

[pbrown7582]

Hello and welcome to the mad house.


Guess you enjoy winter golf then pick clean place perfect lie every time?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would prefer to play in a divot hole than on top of a replaced divot :thup:

There are prob loads of rules that people will want changing - heck Delc wants the whole book changed to make the game easier for him - you should meet him

But seriously the spike mark I agree that it needs looking at but relief from divots ? Nah not for me

At the end of the day we all know the rules - it's a level playing field

 

[clubchamp98]

Hello and welcome to the mad house.


Guess you enjoy winter golf then pick clean place perfect lie every time?

No I am 5 h/cap and never prefer my lie it just makes bad lies harder when you go back to summer

 

[clubchamp98]

How come Liverpoolphil from l/Buzzard I live in Liverpool are you a native . If you had seen some of the divots from my golf course they look like a JCB removed them . I really hurt myself playing from a divot because I had a chance to win and did not want to take a drop the rule is poor in my opinion. That's what golf is opinions and I respect yours.

 

[Imurg]

The reasoning for not being able to repair a spike mark on your line and not getting relief from a divot are the same...

It's a matter of defining what is and isn't a spikemark/divot.

With a spike mark you have the potential for a putt on the 18th to halve the match taking forever because the player is repairing/tapping down every blemish on the 25 feet of green between his ball and the hole. Most of these blemishes won't have any effect on the ball but, because it's a blemish/potential mark made by a spike (however small or insignificant) it's going to be repaired.
Worst case scenario I know but potentially possible.

With a divot it's the same thing. Is every mark on the fairway a divot/ex-divot or what..?
Playing the 18th, 100 yards from the pin and you ball is in a "mark" on the fairway.
Is it a divot, an animal scrape, a foot scrape, where a weed has died, etc etc...
An obvious divot is a 12 inch hole about 3 inches wide...but a not so obvious one is the mark left when a ball is picked cleanly from the turf leaving a faint depression, barely removing grass...still a divot but it wouldn't affect your next shot.
If you were to allow relief from divots you would have to positively identify that the offending mark is indeed that left by a club.

 

[clubchamp98]

Well if the guy marking your card says its not a divot then its not . you have to prove its an animal scrape and this can be in the rough or the trees not the middle of the fairway. I am talking when half the ball is underground there has to be some common sense involved, if on the fairway you should be entitled to a fairway lie not a hole in the ground. If there is some water in the divot hole you get a drop but not from the divot from the water.

 

[Imurg]

But where do you draw the line..?
20m deep?
5..?

And that's where the time goes.
When was the last time you ended up n a divot..? Apart from recently as that's obviously why you've posted.
I haven't finished in one for years and I play on a course where divots are not often replaced.

 

[williamalex1]

The reasoning for not being able to repair a spike mark on your line and not getting relief from a divot are the same...

It's a matter of defining what is and isn't a spikemark/divot.

With a spike mark you have the potential for a putt on the 18th to halve the match taking forever because the player is repairing/tapping down every blemish on the 25 feet of green between his ball and the hole. Most of these blemishes won't have any effect on the ball but, because it's a blemish/potential mark made by a spike (however small or insignificant) it's going to be repaired.
Worst case scenario I know but potentially possible.

With a divot it's the same thing. Is every mark on the fairway a divot/ex-divot or what..?
Playing the 18th, 100 yards from the pin and you ball is in a "mark" on the fairway.
Is it a divot, an animal scrape, a foot scrape, where a weed has died, etc etc...
An obvious divot is a 12 inch hole about 3 inches wide...but a not so obvious one is the mark left when a ball is picked cleanly from the turf leaving a faint depression, barely removing grass...still a divot but it wouldn't affect your next shot.
If you were to allow relief from divots you would have to positively identify that the offending mark is indeed that left by a club.

Clubs were allowed to apply a local rule allowing a free drop from a SEEDED divot , but no longer for some reason.Welcome BTW.

 

[Robobum]

There are just too many variables in what is or isn't a divot. Impossible to do without making everything pick and place IMO

The spike marks is a different situation and I do believe that we should be able to tap any marks down. I don't agree that this will take an eternity and make play any slower. Being penalised for some clumsy oaf in front of you is hard to take.

But, until the rule is changed I will do the English thing and sulk in silence

 

[Foxholer]

Clubs were allowed to apply a local rule allowing a free drop from a SEEDED divot , but no longer for some reason.Welcome BTW.

The reasoning - and I can understand it, even though I'd sooner be able to get the drop - is that this will make 2 areas that are 'under repair' as opposed to a single one. Plenty of clubs had to get Scorecards re-done!

I'd be a fan of being able to repair spike marks - which I see as unfair, as the clot in front of me who made them doesn't suffer and I fix them so those behind don't suffer (as much); it's only me that suffers from someone else's bad habits!

It would be nice to lift from divots on fairways but it doesn't happen often, is part of the 'play it as it lies' philosophy and would mean that clubs wouldn't need to do so much maintenance - so wouldn't - to repair them properly. As others have stated, there can be doubt as to what is/isn't a divot (or spike mark even) so the current Rules at least remove any issues with subjective doubt!

Oh and welcome too!

 

[clubchamp98]

But where do you draw the line..?
20m deep?
5..?

And that's where the time goes.
When was the last time you ended up n a divot..? Apart from recently as that's obviously why you've posted.
I haven't finished in one for years and I play on a course where divots are not often replaced.

Yes I do understand there are some problems with the divot rule but next time a player gets injured and it puts you out the game for six weeks in July /August you may just change you mind. The spike rule is different the worst case scenario posted is possible but so is a three foot put to win the scratch medal with a spike mark on your line 2 seconds to sort it.

 

[clubchamp98]

If you play from a seeded divot there is nothing to put back so you have a divot hole! play from a drop and you have a divot to replace where is the extra work. if you were able to fix any blemish on the greens there would be NO subjective doubt !

 

[clubchamp98]

20m divots that seems a little deep

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would prefer to play in a divot hole than on top of a replaced divot :thup:

There are prob loads of rules that people will want changing - heck Delc wants the whole book changed to make the game easier for him - you should meet him

But seriously the spike mark I agree that it needs looking at but relief from divots ? Nah not for me

At the end of the day we all know the rules - it's a level playing field

..and that is exactly it.

Also the rules are as they are not simply to address what might seem a silly situation (such as not being allowed to tap down a spike mark) but to address other less likely similar scenarios in which the player would get an unfair advantage were the rule not in place.

Though I would question the OP - in what way is the rule outdated? It was no less 'silly' 50 yrs ago and nothing has changed - maybe other than the attitude of some to the rules. Something seems silly? - has anything changed over the decades in respect of the scenario the rule is being applied - if not then why change the rule?

But of course you'd expect me to take that point of view

 

[Imurg]

Yes I do understand there are some problems with the divot rule but next time a player gets injured and it puts you out the game for six weeks in July /August you may just change you mind.

How do get injured playing out of a divot..?
It's no different to playing a normal shot, you still hit the ground at 80mph (or thereabouts)
If you're going to get injured playing out of a divot then you're going to get injured playing from next to one...

 

[clubchamp98]

The divot was from someone playing another hole so was facing 90 degrees from my line of play I hit the ball and the club hit the back /side of the divot and snapped the shaft of my brand new AP2 6 iron I missed six weeks in july / august last year and was going stir crazy not being able to play. To answer why the rule is outdated I think we can all agree that green surfaces are much better now than when this rule was made so a spike mark does affect the ball more now than times gone by. How can you get an unfair advantage if this rule applies to everyone that does not make sense sorry. It would make sure you were not penalised for some lazy golfer in front of you. No one has explained it yet except to say" this is how it is" if you want the greens I Perfect condition I really don't see why you can't fix ANYTHING on them.

 

[Imurg]

why you can't fix ANYTHING on them.

Time - pure and simple.
In your senario it would, I agree, take 2 seconds to tap down a spike mark.
But my scenario, at the other end of the scale, could mean taking a couple of minutes to recreate the "perfect" condition.
As with identifying divots - where do you draw the line?
If you're withn a couple of feet or a couple of yards or 30 feet...?
It's impractical to give someone the opportunity to use 5 minutes to ensure they have a perfect putting green in front of them - they're still likely to miss......
If everyone of a 4 ball takes a minute on every green to tap down any imperfection you're going to add half an hour to a round.

 

[doublebogey7]

The divot was from someone playing another hole so was facing 90 degrees from my line of play I hit the ball and the club hit the back /side of the divot and snapped the shaft of my brand new AP2 6 iron I missed six weeks in july / august last year and was going stir crazy not being able to play. To answer why the rule is outdated I think we can all agree that green surfaces are much better now than when this rule was made so a spike mark does affect the ball more now than times gone by. How can you get an unfair advantage if this rule applies to everyone that does not make sense sorry. It would make sure you were not penalised for some lazy golfer in front of you. No one has explained it yet except to say" this is how it is" if you want the greens I Perfect condition I really don't see why you can't fix ANYTHING on them.

Sorry but many on here have explained it, you just do not accept them, which is of course your prerogative.

 

[Foxholer]

In spite of the fact that I would like to have the ability to be able to repair Spike Marks (particularly) and get relief from fairway divots, I don't believe either rule/ruling is outdated or silly!