Out on Licence

[Wolf]

I was agreeing with you, just pointing out that a tiny percentage is still a huge number

Apologies if I took your reply in a way it wasn't intended Bob. Indeed a tiny percentage is still huge number but we can't control what happens outside our borders there is no way of combating radicalisation in any faith.

We need to find a way on focusing on what we can control.

 

[harpo_72]

They skipped the parole board or assessment as well ?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You have now. See previous post.

I still wished that we could have executed Usman Khan, two innocent people would still be alive and many lives would not have been ruined.

But would not the same be true if he not only received a prison sentence commensurate with his original offences but also had to serve the full tariff?

 

[Hobbit]

It was exactly that Bri, when the 3 won their case those on those sentences appealed.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/

At least the marbles aren't rattling too much

 

[Slime]

But would not the same be true if he not only received a prison sentence commensurate with his original offences but also had to serve the full tariff?

As for his two victims, most definitely.
However, there would always be a day when he is released and, at that point, he could instigate another terrorist attack which could end the lives of any number of innocent victims.
I don't believe we should EVER take that chance with people of his ilk.
I'd remove the threat at the earliest possible opportunity, that's all I'm saying.
Hey, I've even been told, in an earlier thread, that I'm no better than Rigby's murderers just because I advocated their execution!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

As for his two victims, most definitely.
However, there would always be a day when he is released and, at that point, he could instigate another terrorist attack which could end the lives of any number of innocent victims.
I don't believe we should EVER take that chance with people of his ilk.
I'd remove the threat at the earliest possible opportunity, that's all I'm saying.
Hey, I've even been told, in an earlier thread, that I'm no better than Rigby's murderers just because I advocated their execution!

Unfortunately so many are incapable of debating issues such as capital punishment without resorting to personal attacks.

I respect your position whilst not agreeing with you. That's how it should be in a civilised society.

 

[harpo_72]

As for his two victims, most definitely.
However, there would always be a day when he is released and, at that point, he could instigate another terrorist attack which could end the lives of any number of innocent victims.
I don't believe we should EVER take that chance with people of his ilk.
I'd remove the threat at the earliest possible opportunity, that's all I'm saying.
Hey, I've even been told, in an earlier thread, that I'm no better than Rigby's murderers just because I advocated their execution!

I think in the end here 2 people died and several were maimed but the execution took place.
Whether you agree or not the rule was set and we will have a massive post-mortem on these rules and the Policeman who followed the rules.
For me I understand the rule set and as far as I am concerned they are justified. The fact the vest was a dummy is inconsequential, there was an intent.
In a way it’s a death penalty.

 

[stefanovic]

Generalisation of any male Muslim to suit your agenda. Not every Muslim will seek to become a jihadist just because the book says they'll be rewarded and its unbelievably naive or islamaphibic to potentially suggest otherwise..

Apart from your speling being atroshus your logic is too.

Islam works off a book called the Koran, which is not kind to unbelievers.
There are some who believe in every word and will follow its instruction, especially so if encouraged by faith leaders.
The penalty for apostasy or blasphemy within their own community can also be death.
But there are many others who are moderate and for them it is mainly cultural.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Apart from your speling being atroshus your logic is too.

Islam works off a book called the Koran, which is not kind to unbelievers.
There are some who believe in every word and will follow its instruction, especially so if encouraged by faith leaders.
The penalty for apostasy or blasphemy within their own community can also be death.
But there are many others who are moderate and for them it is mainly cultural.

Right... Rule 1... If you are going to have a go at other members for their spelling, make sure yours is perfect

Rule 2, I want to make it quite clear that mass generalizations of any kind regarding race, religion etc are not helpful, especially when taken out of context

Some of your posts are right on the line and are in danger of crossing it, best post on another subject.

 

[Wolf]

Apart from your speling being atroshus your logic is too.

Islam works off a book called the Koran, which is not kind to unbelievers.
There are some who believe in every word and will follow its instruction, especially so if encouraged by faith leaders.
The penalty for apostasy or blasphemy within their community can also be death.
But there are many others who are moderate and for them it is mainly cultural.

As for my spelling I think you actually mean the Quran to give the book its correct spelling and title instead of the western Koran spelling we give it if you want to be factual.

And funny enough I know well enough about Islam having served several tours in Islamic countries. Meaning I've seen both sides the extremism in all its glory and the many more followers that are a truly peaceful people.

Yes there are those that take some of its text literal and feel anointed by Allah to take up the Jihad against the west. But then let's not blame it all on the book shall we because in the bible such as leviticus and Deuteronomy books have several passages telling people to kill in the name of God for those who worship false prophets, it also states punishments for women laying with men, or blasphemers.

The issue comes down to 1 thing and that's not the book but the extreme factions, your initial post was to say it will appeal to every male is Islamaphobic (is that spelling better for you)

What would your answer be then to solve such an issue because clearly digging people out for being male and Muslim saying they will be interested is ridiculous. As for my logic being atrocious what because I don't feel that someone should be tarred with a brush because they have a religious belief that sadly some others hide behind to carry out atrocities. Your just showing yourself to be ignorant.

 

[stefanovic]

As for my spelling I think you actually mean the Quran to give the book its correct spelling and title instead of the western Koran spelling we give it if you want to be factual.

As for my atroshus speling, I'm sure most folk here would recognise my deliberate misspelling.
Koran, Quran, Qur'an is a word spelt in different ways.

And funny enough I know well enough about Islam having served several tours in Islamic countries. Meaning I've seen both sides the extremism in all its glory and the many more followers that are a truly peaceful people.

I was never in the military but I have also visited many Muslim countries as a tourist and had a Muslim girlfriend for a few years.

let's not blame it all on the book shall we because in the bible such as leviticus and Deuteronomy books have several passages telling people to kill in the name of God for those who worship false prophets, it also states punishments for women laying with men, or blasphemers.

In England we can thank much of that to the Glorious Revolution in 1688 when religious wars became less frequent.
Unfortunately the Islamic world has not always seen good sense and is probably a hundred years behind us.

The issue comes down to 1 thing and that's not the book but the extreme factions, your initial post was to say it will appeal to every male is Islamaphobic (is that spelling better for you)

Still wrong. Give you one more try.

What would your answer be then to solve such an issue because clearly digging people out for being male and Muslim saying they will be interested is ridiculous. As for my logic being atrocious what because I don't feel that someone should be tarred with a brush because they have a religious belief that sadly some others hide behind to carry out atrocities. Your just showing yourself to be ignorant.

In the light of science all religions are wrong but we still live the dark age of religion. Education is the answer.

 

[Slime]

Unfortunately so many are incapable of debating issues such as capital punishment without resorting to personal attacks.

I respect your position whilst not agreeing with you. That's how it should be in a civilised society.

I absolutely ditto the above.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The Death Penalty will not be re introduced into the UK

It’s not a deterrent and there will always be a chance of an innocent man being killed

What does need to happen is a reform of the prison service

Some crimes should mean life no parole and life should be hard life , no luxuries , no vistors , solitary confinement for the worst , in a cell for 23 hours , one hour walk around a yard - it should be a punishment

Some will always emotionally feel that killing someone should be an available punishment but we as a civilised society moved past that a long time ago

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The Death Penalty will not be re introduced into the UK

It’s not a deterrent and there will always be a chance of an innocent man being killed

What does need to happen is a reform of the prison service

Some crimes should mean life no parole and life should be hard life , no luxuries , no vistors , solitary confinement for the worst , in a cell for 23 hours , one hour walk around a yard - it should be a punishment

Some will always emotionally feel that killing someone should be an available punishment but we as a civilised society moved past that a long time ago

You are correct, but I’d still like it available as an option for judges when dealing with child killers. (That’s my issue to deal with though)

 

[Blue in Munich]

The Death Penalty will not be re introduced into the UK

It’s not a deterrent and there will always be a chance of an innocent man being killed

What does need to happen is a reform of the prison service

Some crimes should mean life no parole and life should be hard life , no luxuries , no vistors , solitary confinement for the worst , in a cell for 23 hours , one hour walk around a yard - it should be a punishment

Some will always emotionally feel that killing someone should be an available punishment but we as a civilised society moved past that a long time ago

In your opinion. Others may differ.

 

[Hobbit]

You are correct, but I’d still like it available as an option for judges when dealing with child killers. (That’s my issue to deal with though)

There is a danger when sentences are very stiff that a criminal will commit an extreme crime in the hope of hiding something not quite as extreme. The example given at the time was the suggestion that the sentence for a paedophile should be life. The worry was that if a paedo gets life for abuse might he actually commit murder in the hope of hiding the crime. Its a tough one to reconcile...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In your opinion. Others may differ.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/s...e-the-death-penalty-is-an-effective-deterrent

They may differ but then just ask why crime still happens in countries where the death penalty exists - it’s clearly not stopping people from committing the level of crime that some countries use it as a punishment so how can it be a deterrent?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thec...th-penalty-is-a-deterrent-against-crime-43227

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There is a danger when sentences are very stiff that a criminal will commit an extreme crime in the hope of hiding something not quite as extreme. The example given at the time was the suggestion that the sentence for a paedophile should be life. The worry was that if a paedo gets life for abuse might he actually commit murder in the hope of hiding the crime. Its a tough one to reconcile...

Agreed Bri, It’s certainly difficult, I don’t think it’s a deterrent in itself, but Child killers, I’d do them.

 

[Hobbit]

Agreed Bri, It’s certainly difficult, I don’t think it’s a deterrent in itself, but Child killers, I’d do them.

I just can't agree to the death penalty. Its just not in my DNA. However, for extremes like child killers I'd like life to be life. For them to have no TV, no newspapers, no books, no visitors, and solitary confinement apart from when they are working. And for them to have to work for their food. Don't work, no food.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I just can't agree to the death penalty. Its just not in my DNA. However, for extremes like child killers I'd like life to be life. For them to have no TV, no newspapers, no books, no visitors, and solitary confinement apart from when they are working. And for them to have to work for their food. Don't work, no food.

I could be persuaded if that was the punishment, but sadly we are were we are.