Out of bounds markings

[cliveb]

If a course boundary is marked with a white line, should the white line be unbroken, of can it be dashed?
The reason I ask is that we had a discussion about an internal OOB.

The attached photo shows the situation:


There are a pair of white posts, and a curved dashed line painted between them.
The person whose ball ended up in the indicated location claimed that because it was in bounds of a straight line between the posts, his ball was in bounds.
The definitions state that if the boundary is marked by "a painted line" then the posts are irrelevant, in which case the ball is out of bounds.

Do any of the rules experts here know whether the line must be unbroken? Is a dashed line a valid OOB marking or not?

 

[rulefan]

What does the course say in its 'local rules'?

In the absence of anything else IMO (only) the margin is the white lines or an imaginary line connecting the white lines that are present.

 

[jim8flog]

Definitely OB

Rules of Golf
Committee procedures

• When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground, the Committee can also place stakes to make the boundary visible from a distance. It should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show players that the boundary is there. These stakes do not define the boundary, but they are boundary objects from which free relief is not available unless otherwise specified in the Local Rules (see Model Local Rule A-5).
• There may be times where the Committee may not wish to paint a white line on a road or pavement. In this case, the most unobtrusive way of marking the boundary may be to paint a series of white dots on the ground. When this is done, the Local Rules should be used to advise the players as to how the boundary has been marked (see Model Local Rule A-1).

 

[Steven Rules]

All correct. The broken or dotted line is acceptable to mark the boundary. The posts have no meaning in this instance (except that free relief is not available from them).

It sounds like the other player wants to have it completely the other way around - posts to 'count' and line irrelevant - which is wrong.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where’s @Orikoru when you really need him…?

 

[cliveb]

All correct. The broken or dotted line is acceptable to mark the boundary. The posts have no meaning in this instance (except that free relief is not available from them).

It sounds like the other player wants to have it completely the other way around - posts to 'count' and line irrelevant - which is wrong.

Ok, thanks for confirming that a broken line is ok.
If this happens again I'll be able to explain it with confidence that I'm right.

 

[Orikoru]

Where’s @Orikoru when you really need him…?

I mean, I got told it was a straight line between posts and to apply common sense that suggests otherwise is incorrect. ?

 

[Colin L]

I mean, I got told it was a straight line between posts and to apply common sense that suggests otherwise is incorrect. ?

Which is, of course, absolutely correct and it's great that you've remembered ....... provided you remember too that it's a straight line between the posts where posts define the boundary but it's the line where a line defines it and that lines can be curved.

 

[Backsticks]

Nor does the line that is a curve even need to be marked deliberately with the white dashes. If there is some other feature, curbing, trench, road edge, etc, then OB follows that if curving, not the straight line between the stakes that are simply indicators that the curbing or whatever is the boundary.

 

[rulefan]

We used to have a lateral steep sided ditch with a gravel path on the fairway side. The ball was in the WH/PA if it was in the water. If it was beyond the water line it was OOB.
There are now gravel boards lining each side of the path. Ditch side of the path is OOB. This was done to save wasting time with working out the PA relief on the path side although it is pretty well out of play..

 

[woofers]

If a course boundary is marked with a white line, should the white line be unbroken, of can it be dashed?
The reason I ask is that we had a discussion about an internal OOB.

The attached photo shows the situation:
View attachment 43838

There are a pair of white posts, and a curved dashed line painted between them.
The person whose ball ended up in the indicated location claimed that because it was in bounds of a straight line between the posts, his ball was in bounds.
The definitions state that if the boundary is marked by "a painted line" then the posts are irrelevant, in which case the ball is out of bounds.

Do any of the rules experts here know whether the line must be unbroken? Is a dashed line a valid OOB marking or not?

I had to look at this a couple of times before realising that the scenario shown is on the right hand side of the fairway, and wondered if the “person” would have made a different claim if it happened to be on the left hand side of the fairway.?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Nor does the line that is a curve even need to be marked deliberately with the white dashes. If there is some other feature, curbing, trench, road edge, etc, then OB follows that if curving, not the straight line between the stakes that are simply indicators that the curbing or whatever is the boundary.

…as long as there is a local rule stating that the curbing/trench/road edge etc to the LHS/RHS/rear etc of the xx hole defines OoB?

 

[cliveb]

I had to look at this a couple of times before realising that the scenario shown is on the right hand side of the fairway, and wondered if the “person” would have made a different claim if it happened to be on the left hand side of the fairway.?

In fact it's across an adjacent fairway. Basically if you hook your drive and it crosses the line on the other fairway it's OOB. This was brought in because you're playing a par 4 with a dogleg to the left, and by cutting the corner and driving onto the adjacent fairway it made the approach shot easier, but was a danger to players on that other hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In fact it's across an adjacent fairway. Basically if you hook your drive and it crosses the line on the other fairway it's OOB. This was brought in because you're playing a par 4 with a dogleg to the left, and by cutting the corner and driving onto the adjacent fairway it made the approach shot easier, but was a danger to players on that other hole.

Aaargh…internal OoB…? Needs must I suppose.

 

[rulefan]

What is the difference between playing a hole with an internal OB and one where the adjacent land has a different owner? Would you treat an adjacent hole differently to an adjacent practice area, the greens keepers sheds, the clubhouse or the halfway house? Virtually all internal OB are marked for safety reasons.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What is the difference between playing a hole with an internal OB and one where the adjacent land has a different owner? Would you treat an adjacent hole differently to an adjacent practice area, the greens keepers sheds, the clubhouse or the halfway house? Virtually all internal OB are marked for safety reasons.

In respect of play and safety…absolutely nothing wrong…indeed necessary…especially when the internal OOB is there as some would deliberately take what is usually an unintended often low/no risk shortcut…but when I unintentionally stray over an internal OOB I feel a bit miffed as I am still within the bounds of the course.

 

[Colin L]

In respect of play and safety…absolutely nothing wrong…indeed necessary…especially when the internal OOB is there as some would deliberately take what is usually an unintended often low/no risk shortcut…but when I unintentionally stray over an internal OOB I feel a bit miffed as I am still within the bounds of the course.

How can you be within bounds when you are out of bounds?

 

[salfordlad]

How can you be within bounds when you are out of bounds?

Rhetorical question I presume. Course boundary and hole OOB boundary can be two different things.

 

[Colin L]

Rhetorical question I presume. Course boundary and hole OOB boundary can be two different things.

Playing with words - something I tend do rather better than playing a golf ball. The oddity of the kind of internal OOB being spoken of is that the same area of ground is simultaneously out of bounds and on the course depending on the direction of travel of different players.

 

[rulefan]

In respect of play and safety…absolutely nothing wrong…indeed necessary…especially when the internal OOB is there as some would deliberately take what is usually an unintended often low/no risk shortcut…but when I unintentionally stray over an internal OOB I feel a bit miffed as I am still within the bounds of the course.

A course near me has a public footpath running adjacent to the first 5 holes. It is OB. If the adjacent land was returning holes but also marked as OB, why would you feel more or less miffed if your ball accidentally strayed over the white line?