Optimistic post: has covid been good for golf?

[patricks148]

The problem as I see it is which visitors are subsidising membership fees?

Obviously Dornoch and by association yourselves have benefitted from the premium rates charged to US visitors and therefore lost that income stream.

Do you know the % of green fees the US market accounts for?

I suspect you need to attract more home based visitors but are your green fees priced in a way that is going to achieve that?

We are fortunate the majority of visitors are UK based and despite being the middle of nowhere are actually fairly central north/south geographically.

I've no idea, we were down by 80% on the year before, which was our best year for visitors ever.. cash wise anyway. i think its the majority of yanks many from Donald Ross Clubs, i think he designed in the region of 400 course over there, so its a bit of a pilgrimage, they still were getting over 6K visitors when the Financial crash came, where as we got a few hundred.

the question is usually, members want less visitors, but still want the cash, so the solution appears to be wack the fee's up, prombelm solved, or thats what been happening anyway.

a few of the RD members i know, have loved this year as they could play when they liked and get round in under 4 hours, but they don't live in Dornoch, travel from Inverness. There still have a long waiting list for full memebrship unless you live in the town itself, theirs guys i know who have waited 4 years to get in and still pay the same amount to play the Struie, one guy didn't played it at all and wasn't interested in it, just the championship so paid 4 years fee's not to play!!

 

[Golfnut1957]

I've no idea, we were down by 80% on the year before, which was our best year for visitors ever.. cash wise anyway. i think its the majority of yanks many from Donald Ross Clubs, i think he designed in the region of 400 course over there, so its a bit of a pilgrimage, they still were getting over 6K visitors when the Financial crash came, where as we got a few hundred.

the question is usually, members want less visitors, but still want the cash, so the solution appears to be wack the fee's up, prombelm solved, or thats what been happening anyway.

a few of the RD members i know, have loved this year as they could play when they liked and get round in under 4 hours, but they don't live in Dornoch, travel from Inverness. There still have a long waiting list for full memebrship unless you live in the town itself, theirs guys i know who have waited 4 years to get in and still pay the same amount to play the Struie, one guy didn't played it at all and wasn't interested in it, just the championship so paid 4 years fee's not to play!!

Answers my question.

 

[patricks148]

Answers my question.

ity might just be rumors, but they have almost as many overseas members as locals all paying the same fee, for many rich Americans, £500 to £1000 isn't even what they pay a month at their country club/course.

i paid £900 this year and thats with a lockers and £50 bar credit, will def be over £1000 next time

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I've no idea, we were down by 80% on the year before, which was our best year for visitors ever.. cash wise anyway. i think its the majority of yanks many from Donald Ross Clubs, i think he designed in the region of 400 course over there, so its a bit of a pilgrimage, they still were getting over 6K visitors when the Financial crash came, where as we got a few hundred.

the question is usually, members want less visitors, but still want the cash, so the solution appears to be wack the fee's up, prombelm solved, or thats what been happening anyway.

a few of the RD members i know, have loved this year as they could play when they liked and get round in under 4 hours, but they don't live in Dornoch, travel from Inverness. There still have a long waiting list for full memebrship unless you live in the town itself, theirs guys i know who have waited 4 years to get in and still pay the same amount to play the Struie, one guy didn't played it at all and wasn't interested in it, just the championship so paid 4 years fee's not to play!!

Could be interesting moving forward. Sounds like Dornoch will be alright, no doubt they have loads of rich members living overseas who have a vanity membership of the club. These folks would pay whatever the membership fees are but the danger is the club will price itself out of the range of the ordinary golfer from the area and lose its soul. Longer term it could end up as a glorified Kingsbarns, resort course but in Dornoch's case some affuent members rarely seen.

In the case of Nairn do you think you are close to the point of members deciding subs are too high and deciding its not worth it?

Problem as I see it is playing on a quality course every week can spoil you and lesser tracks don't get the juices flowing standing on the first tee.

Haha you have just answered one of my points as I slowly type this..

 

[patricks148]

Could be interesting moving forward. Sounds like Dornoch will be alright, no doubt they have loads of rich members living overseas who have a vanity membership of the club. These folks would pay whatever the membership fees are but the danger is the club will price itself out of the range of the ordinary golfer from the area and lose its soul. Longer term it could end up as a glorified Kingsbarns, resort course but in Dornoch's case some affuent members rarely seen.

In the case of Nairn do you think you are close to the point of members deciding subs are too high and deciding its not worth it?

Problem as I see it is playing on a quality course every week can spoil you and lesser tracks don't get the juices flowing standing on the first tee.

Haha you have just answered one of my points as I slowly type this..

Nairn is already the most expensive club in the area apart from Skibo. our GF was £800 for 2021, most of the members are over 65 many will be on seniors fee's which is almost half. Thats been done away with now so only those that turn 65 in the next 5 years and have been a menber longer than 20 years will get that, it was no longer sustainable. the next exp is Inverness at about £700, but you def wouldn't get 12 months golf there like you would at Nairn, Ive been saying to myself the last few years when it gets over £1K i would think about jacking it, but in reality i doubt i will, i'm a memeber at two clubs, Kings costs me £500, thats been closed most of Jan and i don;t play there sa much as i'd liked. so i'de agree with your like in bold.
i think there will be a few who won't pay, but those would still be the people who are yonger and still work, Nairn and Inverness are big retirement area's so those in that bracket prob will as they mostly come from down south and even £1k is still cheap comp to down south.

Though times ahead for many clubs in Scotland

 

[jim8flog]

Here on the banks of the Tees it is pretty much as you say with the norm being around £700+, although I have seen evidence of one or two clubs testing the water. Seaton Carew is now up to £900 which is a significant jump and Wynyard have gone up to over £1200 which is a joke. It's a nice course but not that nice that I want to pay £500 a year more.

I wonder where the North/South fee divide is and is it just the home counties or is it just the North East.

It is not a North / South divide more of an area in and around commuting distance of London ( maybe most of the South East) verses the rest of the UK

I live in the West Country Just North of Dorset and apart from the big name clubs the fees are less than £1000 a year. We are £890 for a 27 hole course
Sherborne is £940 & Long Sutton £729 but they are often flooded and only part open.

 

[D-S]

Its also a country versus city divide. I live near and play in Bristol, cheapest Bristol members club is over £1000 however 10 or 15 miles away it is £670.

 

[Bdill93]

Worcester (Midlands) Clubs Prices - Just for reference - all full adult price. All within 15 minutes of the city centre.

Cheapest club (mine) - £550 - mines actually £27 p/m as we offer a 25-35 rate.
Bransford (florida style course) - £800
Worcester Golf and County Club - £1146.00 - they be gutted if I didnt say it was designed by Dr Alister Mackenzie - only mentioned on the website 5000 times.....

Only my club can offer 12 months of golf...